I think arms is s tier
SV/Outlaw is the best 2s melee
Arms/Sub is the best 3s melee
Nerf rogue mage
Erm, if that’s the argument you are using, how many survivals in top 10 ? 4 or 5. How many Warriors ? 0.
So I don’t think thats how you should be reasoning.
Actually I don’t feel like Outlaw really has a counter at all, neither does Survival, when they playing with their best healer (which is, surprise, Rdruid).
Eh, if its Outlaw Priest, you have a good chance at winning if you play Arms Rdruid ! But yeah vs stuff such as Outlaw Druid or Outlaw MW you just always lose.
The healer is quite important. Outlaw Druid loses to RM, Outlaw Priest wins most, Outlaw Druid wins most WWs, Outlaw Priest loses most.
Tbh tier lists that only look at specs qnd not comps … ugh. For instance, Sub Holy is absolutely disgustingly broken in 2s. Sub Fire is good. Sub anything else is garbage. So what’s Sub? God tier because it has one godlike comp, or not ?
That is exactly why you lose to Outlaw Druid as Warrior. If you face Outlaw, kill the healer if he isn’t Rdruid. If he is more often than not you’ll have to take the loss.
Against Lock and Frost Mage as arms you always lose on the 4 pillar maps, because they literally sit in the middle and wait for you to leave pillar, then they nuke you with around 20k crits while teleporting around 3 times. There is nothing you can really do, because positioning is important, and casters OWN your positioning, because you have to be where they are, you are the one who has to chase them. They can damage you wherever you are in 40yd and in los, while you can only damage them where they are. If they decide to sit middle and wait you out, GL.
so i may have a chance on druid swaps with burst 
Arms too S tier and your list is perfect
Saying that Arms is not S tier, just makes your argument invalid.
Open your eyes, This spec is overloaded with Damage, Survivability and Utility.
Kiting is a ‘‘counter’’ to Arms, but when you have 100000 charges + Kyrian spear ( which is the easy way to play 2s instead of necro) + Great utility and defensives, you can play around that.
Yes Survival / Rdruid is hard, but it’s not because they have a FEW counters, that it means that it doesn’t deserve S tier.
Arms is NOT fine, If you say that Arms has PERFECT and GREAT class design, then w/e man.
Well you have a chance with swaps on either with burst as they won’t have HoTs but the Druid has Bear + auto Frenzy + Barkskin for a swap while the Rogue has 70k HP. And then if they go out of the stun well, Evasion, Disarm, healing, etc. Blind even. But maybe with a Rsham the match-up isn’t that horrible because Shamans are not bad vs Druids for dampening games.
im just playing casually with a mw monk.
But that vs this outlaw rdruid with like 65k hp. it was the first time in this game i stood there after and had absolutely zero fkn clue what i could do to them effectively. Never had this before and i was kinda questioning myself^^
Well tbh Warriors can stun and hit a bit through Evasion so there’s that, but overall the Outlaw will have similar damage to you but more CC and more defensives, leading to you doing less damage as you play the game less than he does, and then because the Rdruid keeps everyone alive until 85% dampening you eventually won’t be able to heal the damage, and never recover from CC.
This was true if u wouldnt be stuck in a comedic long cc chain
Good outlaws double you because ure not playing the game
Youre never supposed to win but luckily outlaw has so many tools that people tend to waste their stuff and somehow manage to die
Anyway if you care about 2s youre lost anyway and im hella glad outlaw is abit worse in 3s not to say unviable because i only played against few outlaw comps
If you had read the sentence that actually follow what you quoted you’d have read :
In short : yes, I am aware, and that is exactly what I already said.
It is surprisingly good in RPS. I assume it would be fine in RLS too but RLS is not a good comp. And last it is quite good with some other melees such as Ret. But overall, yes, Sub will be a lot better simply because it can play RMP.
I faced that rps but it didnt feel as bad. Lots of pressure but in 3s you either cc defensive as a single rogue or offensive. You wont do both without a mage My only worry is that there is some broken comp with outlaw that people havent tried yet.
It’s possible I suppose but I don’t think so. The kit is good in 3s but really, really broken in 2s because there is only one other DPS and the enemy team has only two possible targets. Kind of like Rdruid, actually. What I mean is, in 3s you will never be forced to either attack a 70k HP target with Evasion every 50s, or a Bear Form, Vortex Roar Bash Cyclone unslowable healer with Thorns 25% of the time. There’ll be the third guy.
I’d like to see what a well played Outlaw Ele Disc can do, Legion style. But now you can Kidney 7s into Hex the healer every go, Lasso kill target, Gouge Fear the third… all the while having crazy damage.
Why are u not outlaw by now, free 3k in 2s for you plus it looks more fun in 2s aswell.
And yeah theres even warrior+outlaw qing on 3.1 mmr right now. Its abit weird but nothing really seems “broken” yet
I play it sometimes but with a Priest. As such Warriors still win whenever they have a Rdruid, and Monks win most games as well (all of them if they have a Holy Paladin since they BoP the go I am supposed to peel). And Holy Sub, too.
The Priest being the weak link it isn’t such a free 3k since so many Druid comps can survive long enough to oom him, or just outright kill him (Holy Sub says hi).
But yeah if I had a wonderful Rdruid that would feel so much easier indeed. Free is the right word.
Yeah priest makes every 2s matchup highly winable for warrior, always asking myself how hunter and rogues dont just get a druid and poop on everybody. Tho i can see how its more fun with a priest i guess
I don’t know any and play alliance. Not much choice.
Yes, that as well. Fun is important as well. Like, I could play Holy Sub and pop my 3 2 1 DBM timer for unavoidable deadly setups every DR while running in circles around pillars the rest of the time. But eh… does it sound appealing to anyone ?
what a time to be a DK, both specs trash
enh A tier…ok nice joke 