Got my 4 set today, went up 9 ilvls and ive lost 12k DPS off my MT, mixed around with different specs and i cant even get it back to what is was with my s2 447 tier, its a joke, every season were bottom barrel melee dps, no utility no CC either making us one of the least favoured melee dps to bring into M+
Sounds quite weird, 12k off your MT sims or the performance you expect to see in your dungs?
If it is the 1st, please link both your sim (raidbots) profiles, as that could be useful information for devs to take a look at for reference.
If it is the 2nd, it is very likely you simply are not used to the new rotation. It feels quite a bit more ‘clunky’, doing it wrong hurts your overall a lot - no joke, it will take you from 250k to 170k easily.
If you are not sure about what build to use and how the new rotation works, here is a good tool to help you out:
Fury Warrior DPS Guide - Dragonflight 10.2 - Wowhead
It should hold all the information you need to get going, being able to enjoy the DPS potential of Fury Warrior this tier.
It is a bumpy ride, as the rotation and prio system is really different. So expect at least a couple of nights of just getting used to the new build and playstyle.
Hope things become better for you, best of luck!
Battle shout, rallying cry, storm bolt, shockwave, intimitating shout, spell reflect.
Nerf demon hunters and we might actually look ok.
Once again someone spout our utility in a vacuum…
The question is considering equal experience (rio) and equal gear (ilvl) what is the incentive for taking a warrior dps. There is nothing we are better at than almost all alternatives. We are on average worse in most important categories (dps/dmg profile/utility/stops).
The claim was no utility or cc, when we have both.
The argument Kagi’s trying to make is that our current utility is not enough, in fact it is so bad it equals just as good as having none.
Most will ignore that warrior got access to AoE interupt, AoE stun, AoE knockback, Fear, ST stun, Spell Reflect, Tether, Rally, AoE slow, Slow, Intervene, Fear Immunity (self), Fear Immunity (party), damage immunity removal and; perhaps one of the most tanky profiles in the game and Fury Warrior’s extremely good ST to MT profile.
Currently there are a lot of people who prefer blaming the class and specs, instead of their own ability. They refuse to network to push. So they get frustrated when they don’t get invited to a 25 PuG - using that experience to confirm their bias of ‘spec is bad’. Instead of looking at the players doing 27s.
I wont blame them for it though, many just get trapped in echochambers that complain a lot. It just feels natural to complain, instead of focusing on self-improvement. It is hell a lot easier to do so, than calling yourself out to ‘git gud’.
Nice list of all of our utility, now tell me what talent points are you going to replace with 2 talent points needed to reach such a powerful utility as AOE slow *epic boss music starts to play. That you btw already have as a fury with Meat cleaver and Hamstring.
could drop impending victory and fast footwork if you value aoe snare
THATS 2 GLOBALS ONLY HITTING 4 TARGETS!!!
What are you on about, who in their right mind will drop Impending victory, one of the strongest instant healing cooldowns in the game, the sole reason for warrior exceptional survivability, for a AOE slow, only usable in very specific scenarios where you need to kite.
Again you are mentioning “on paper” options, that nobody who does higher keys and especially PVP is going to pick. Survivability is what matters most in these scenarios, and Impending Victory is just a simple no-brainer.
Its 5 targets your primary and 4 additional targets, its also only one global since you probably have meat cleaver rolling anyway, only real downside is the fact that it costs rage, but its fine to use in most scenarios where you need slow, aka kiting of Spiteful for example.
My bet is that you are the kind of guy who plays Fury Warrior and refuses to take shockwave.
If that is it, ye, sorry - I really am. There is no saving you.
Now, if you want the fear immunity, sure, you lose your fear. So on and on, though the point is : We got access to it, if it is needed. That is the point of the system, to have choices. Not to have everything at every time.
Usual corekit would be: ST stun, AoE stun, Fear, rally and SR.
That alone is more than enough for your avg +2 to +24 PuG.
Again you, with cheap attempts to discredit my opinions.
I always use shockwave, this season, and I am happy we can use it with this build, if you look at my armory it’s in my M+ build.
Thing is why would you use Fear immunity over Fear? or AOE slow over AOE stun? In what scenario that talent will be more useful, yeah sure If we were able to pick and choose talents in M+ and change them on the go, yeah, then that talent would be usable in some specific fights like Rezan, thing is we can not do that, and in M+ scenario Fear is just better in every way since its used as AOE interrupt. When you go in Mythic plus you pick talents that you will use for 30 minutes, not talent that you will use once, given that
Berserker rage has 1 min cooldown, you may use it twice in the entire dungeon.
An option is not an option if you never really use it.
This consistent defense of warrior theoretical “choices” I simply do not understand, you know full well you will never use it, but you have need to mention it.
I agree that we don’t need new talents, we just need a Tree rework. It’s not modular enough, even more for Arms spec than Fury as you don’t need TC.
You can name also all our talents if you want, doesn’t remove the fact that we cannot spec into crazy support guy without destroying our dps output. And respec is not possible in M+
By the way:
Aoe knockback? Where?
Aoe interrupt? You mean fear right?
Tether? You mean Spear of Bastion? So no Aoe Stun then
Fear Immunity (party) or Aoe Snare (not both)
damage immunity removal = Shattering Throw, in m+ really?
And after DH, nerf Paladins, after Paladins, Shamans, after Shamans; Warlocks, and then maybe sometime in next 3 expansions we will look fine.
Lets face it Warrior talent tree is trash its root of all issues with our class, we can say that now after most other specs got reworks that seem to improve all aspects of their talent kit and gameplay.
Its Menace, Bonus talent under Fear, and yeah its never picked because if it was simple knock back that would be fine, but it actually pushes mobs so far that in almost all case you will accidentally pull another pack, I am still not sure why they do not change it, its a cool concept with very bad end product.
Yeah for some reason this guys tend to see Spear as utility, when in fact its a DPS cooldown you are meant to stand in while you use it. Apart from being awful gameplay element, that forces you to stay in place, using it outside your burst is a waste of talent.
You can pick it instead of shockwave. Clearly that is what you want for M+ right.
(S2 spec and tier 463 ilvl)
(S3 spec and tier 469 ilvl)
Smaller margin but still a dps loss switching to s3
I have take fear immunity for pugs in AD, because, lots of AoE fears. Premades love it too, as they can just go ham with no fear of fear… huehuehue
AoE slow is not needed as long you got one in the group, so very unlikely it is needed. Now…
I am glad you bring Shockwave and aren’t one of the majority. The ‘shockwave is too big a DPS loss’ crew is huge on the forum.
I discredit your opinion, in the same way you discredit mine. With waves of the hand.
Utility is only useful in as far as it got on-use cases, the lack of these cases does not mean there is a lack of utility in the kit. It was not stated that we could use our utility all the time, the statement was we have no utility.
Just in case you got lost in plot.
Love when sauce is added, time to take a looksie
Your sims are split, so I just slapped them together real quick.
What is interesting, with old talents is the best option by +3.7k DPS, or 1%.
On ST you will gain 7k DPS, or 4.5%, using the new tier and talents.
Now, if M+ had no bosses or Lieutenants (or you always got 4 mobs with the boss up, at all times), then I would say that using old tier would’ve been the best option for you (as long you are not taking damage).
Yet, as the DPS loss ST to MT is scuffed so you likely lose DPS overall. As sub 1% overall, is close to within margin of error. 4.5% is more likely to effect the outcome. Let us say 70% of the total DPS is AoE, then you would gain 0.7% overall (1% of total 70%), (4.5% of 30% total) but lose 1.35% overall.
Still, your point alone stands, even if it is not practical and at best trivial. A funny little thing to spot, for sure
TLDR: For anyone that don’t want to look into the sims, use the new tier in this situation
Most complaints are about, lack of Utility in M+. By utility for M+, is meant that warrior lacks spells or abilities to take care of dungeon mechanics, affixes, help group throughout fights.
Good example to compare warrior with, are Paladins, they do comparable, or even larger damage then warrior in this season in particular, can use strong heals on allies, have combat res, have ability to give freedom of movement much more usable than lets say Fear Immunity, have actual physical immunity they can give to brake entire mechanics much more reliable compared to lets say spell reflect, and are survivable as much as warriors. There is a reason why number of Retribution paladins are almost 2x times larger in 20+ keys, compared to both warrior DPS specs, combined and are going to benefit from Lege even more than we will.
That is just one example, I can go on and mention DH, DK, Rogues, Shamans even.
My point is, while our utility is “existing” compared to other melee specs, and when you add range specs, the argument for “warrior in group” becomes very weak. Sure networking can help, but experience playing M+ tells me that outside of friends groups, META and COMPS popular in higher keys, easily become META in lower levels of play.
Why I think we need more utility is, as I said before fact that damage is a changeable metric, utility on the other hand stays for most part.
I understand the point youre making by saying our ST increase brings an overall DPS increase in M+, but we should be getting BOTH an increase on MT and ST, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that even with 7 more ilvls and new tier my cleave is putting out less overall then last season.
Yeah I wondered if he was referring to this & it’s just a reworked fear that you use for the meme in BGs…
Well you would pick them instead of impending victory & +10% movement speed but that’s definitely a trade that your healer will love (can’t wait to see somebody do this with Sanguine)
Anyway, he keeps the same justification for month now. Seems for him, we should just network to find nice guys to accept to carry us around & create dedicated comps to push. It’s like all warrior starting to talk on this topic are just people who don’t have friends, guildmates & contacts (what a shame, people who don’t know how to socialize correctly!)
In the meantime, blizzard creates Battlefield commander for Pvp (which is OP af) but leave us to block 2 points to select old baseline skills (Berserker Rage & PH)