Blizzard cancels a us server connection!

[Baltic-stormrage]

@Triadne-quelthalas

if you arrived on a LGBT friendly server and said “hi LGBT people, I love you all” then you would most certainly be completely welcome there regardless of your sexuality. that’s how it works.

People shouldn’t have to make such statements, I don’t group LGBT people all together and think I love them all, I don’t love everyone of them until I met them and determine if they are a bad person or not, Just like I do with every other group of people, That’s the way it should be.

I would be the first person to stand up for you if there was a homophobe in silvermoon trade chat picking on you. You don’t need to feel you need to run and hide, Most stright people will get angry and support you. People don’t accept that stuff these days in public.

Read into my posts, I want to play with everyone, Not just white stright male who is very similar to me? what’s the point in that in an mmo?

[Janiah-doomhammer]

Most of these people have already demonstrated who they are in this thread:
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/unpopular-opinion/164327/
“When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.”

[Baltic-stormrage]

@Janiah-doomhammer

Unpopular opinion

Here we go again… Taking posts out of context. Disagree with hypocrisy you’re a racist or homophobe. This person actually should try read the posts.

I’ve determined who you are in this thread already. Someone who thinks anyone who disagrees with you is a homophobe or racist.

When he get’s asked why, he can’t answer.

Trying to bring another thread into this one to derail this topic for attention.

You clearly think everyone has to agree with everything you say or they are a bigot, Even without showing signs of bigotry. I wonder what that sounds like?

[Triadne-quelthalas (Triadne)]

@Baltic-stormrage

I would be the first person to stand up for you if there was a homophobe in silvermoon trade chat picking on you. You don’t need to feel you need to run and hide, Most stright people will get angry and support you. People don’t accept that stuff these days in public.

the problem is, they DO in US servers. I was on a US server in general chat, I exclaimed that I was pleased that Caitlyn Jenner was on UK TV and somebody deadnamed her and nobody batted an eyelid. that is one instance out of many. I am merely saying that in a culture such as that, where bigotry is rife, it’s not unreasonable that they might like a safe space.
I have also said, that I personally don’t have a problem because I live in a moderate culture, a friendly town and play on a server in the EU which is generally a nice place to be.
I don’t have any problems and I’m not asking for any changes. I’m just saying I think it’s reasonable that they want to keep their server as it is.

I am certain that if I played with you in game I would have zero issues.

Also, I didn’t suggest that you’d have to say that to people, I was merely giving an example of a type of behaviour. you don’t need to have any special behaviour to hang out with LGBT people or feel welcome by them. just be a normal decent human being and treat everyone with respect and you are welcome among all groups.

it is unfortunate that it doesn’t work both ways. LGBT people can’t expect the same welcome from all people. they can be as delightful as they like, they can be respectful and even be exceptionally generous and loving and yet there are those in america will hate them just for existing.

[Baltic-stormrage]

@Triadne-quelthalas

it is unfortunate that it doesn’t work both ways. LGBT people can’t expect the same welcome from all people. they can be as delightful as they like, they can be respectful and even be exceptionally generous and loving and yet there are those in america will hate them just for existing.

That’s not true at all, Online abuse isn’t exclusive to LGBT people. That’s the issue when people think that only certain people have experienced descrimination, It can happen to anyone, There is higher % of it happening if you’re a certain person, sure. However it can happen to anyone anywhere. All descrimination is equally wrong, There shouldn’t be a scale to determine how bad it is.

[Triadne-quelthalas (Triadne)]

I mean you do make a valid point and this could be a whole new area for discussion, but that could also get quite messy.

I agree, all discrimination should be tackled and we should aim to remove it from our societies, but for the time being life is hell for some people living in america and for that particular instance, there is a server that keeps them feeling just a little more safe and I’m okay with that.

as for whether there should be a scale to determine severity of discrimination? I’d say a very high chance of being murdered puts you higher on such a hypothetical scale.

in an ideal world such a disparity wouldn’t exist, but unfortunately, it does.

[Brigante-argent-dawn (Brigante)]

@Splendora-zandalar-tribe

No. If you want to defend their right to have a server that’s exclusive to them

Are you seriously telling me you think there are no ‘Straight’ people on the Proudmoore server?

There really are. There is also no prohibition from Straight people rolling a character on that server either, They aren’t asked with a pop-up to link their Grindr profile? I think you might be confusing what exclusivity means.

Its like "Do I have the right to chill with people whether LGBT+ or Straight in an environment that is not spammed by people making homophobic slurs because we have grown that way together as a community? " Yes. “Do I have the right to be concerned when we get slammed into another server that has not had that experience and may still include -some- (Not all, Some) Jerks who will throw around Homophobic slurs?” Also Yes.

Who gets annoyed?

Some Straight people going “We’re being discriminated against! They’re saying all Straight people are Homophobes!”

They’re really not. That hasn’t been said at all. I mean I am the absolute alpha of privilege, being White, Straight and Male, and thats not what I took from this, I don’t see myself being discriminated against, or insulted or excluded, if I wanted to make a US account tomorrow and roll a character on Proudmoore I would not be barred from doing so, and it sounds like a pretty chill place. I’m not going to get ‘dissed’ for being straight, or kicked out or anything…So it isn’t -excluding- people if anyone can log on there.

@Splendora-zandalar-tribe

You and I both know they call them breeders, straights and a ton of other derogative terms. There’s a reason why a lot of homosexuals (myself included) avoid the LBGT community like it’s a mind virus.

Yeah and?

I know plenty of epithets for homosexuals, some of them I use to my LGBT friends because I know they will take it in the spirit intended, just as I don’t get offended when they call me a Breeder, But thats because we are friends, and they can hear the tone of my voice and expression on my face, and they know I am not a Homophobe. I would -never- make some of the jokes to my friends to random strangers on the internet. . You’re talking about a vastly disconnected bunch of people who would only get the text of what was said, and lose the context and meaning, so what is friendly fun between two mates, could seem like vile homophobic slurs between people who don’t know each other.

@Splendora-zandalar-tribe

No straights allowed is hate.

Straight people can roll on Proudmoore just fine.

@Baltic-stormrage

Judging white stright people is ok but everyone else is terrible. I

Says who? Literally, who is saying this?

Lets use a metaphor here.

Say we were talking about Argent Dawn, right, we’ve got a big built up community based on a common interest (I know sexuality isn’t an ‘interest’ as such, but work with me here) They then suddenly announce they are going to merge us with Draenor or Outlands. We’d be incensed! Of course we would, it would destroy the server community which is an RP Realm. Does that mean we think everyone on those servers are horrible monsters? No, of course not. Would it be bad for the server? Yes. Would we therefore petition Blizzard not to do it? Yes!

They aren’t waving a placard saying “no Straights allowed” as there are straight people on that server already, They’re saying “Really? Can we not, we don’t want to have to put up with the disruption and the slurs that -some- people on that server spew”, and tell me that I’m wrong in that. Tell me that isn’t a legitimate concern.

@Baltic-stormrage

Everyone should be treated the same, Not a pander party for certain people

Only works if everyone signs up to it. Plenty of people on the US Servers don’t. “Be Excellent to each other” is a brilliant phrase, but like religion or communism it only works until it comes into contact with actual human beings, many of whom, as we can see on the forums, are incapable of being so.

Ideally every realm should be a place without any discrimination of any kind. Can anyone honestly hold up their hand and say they’ve never seen that on their own servers? I know I can’t.

[Baltic-stormrage]

@Triadne-quelthalas

as for whether there should be a scale to determine severity of discrimination? I’d say a very high chance of being murdered puts you higher on such a hypothetical scale.

I’m strictly speaking about on World of Warcraft online where people can’t attack you.

I’ve been attacked in real life for no reason from 3 people for “fun” I’m from a rough area. I got my nose/jaw broken and had to get operations in my face. I was 16 and it was adults who did it.

Nothing got done about it and my mother was devastated, It was from people the same race/sexual prefrence. but the outcome is the same no matter if it was or not.

@Brigante-argent-dawn

Only works if everyone signs up to it. Plenty of people on the US Servers don’t. “Be Excellent to each other” is a brilliant phrase, but like religion or communism it only works until it comes into contact with actual human beings, many of whom, as we can see on the forums, are incapable of being so.

Ideally every realm should be a place without any discrimination of any kind. Can anyone honestly hold up their hand and say they’ve never seen that on their own servers? I know I can’t.

Oh you’re right about that, But adding more descrimination doesn’t help the matter. I have seen people randomly use the F word and I always report them, However it’s not a common occurrence.

As I said earlier if stright people said “gay people coming into our server will ruin our community” there would be riots, The point is it shouldn’t matter in world of warcraft. It’s the point. It’s implying stright and gay people are hiveminds that think a like and are the same as each other, The truth is they aren’t, One of my gay friends is tottaly different from the other one.

[Triadne-quelthalas (Triadne)]

That is absolutely horrible and I’m so sorry that happened to you. I don’t want to downplay it in any way or take away from the horrible experience, but I feel it has to be pointed out that the chances of that happening to your demographic were low and you were incredibly unlucky, whilst the chances of being beaten and/or murdered for a trans person are multitude higher.

Also, I realise it is online and nobody can get physically hurt, but emotional pain is very real and in this current climate of isolation and mental health awareness this is something we should be very keenly aware of.

@Baltic-stormrage

if stright people said “gay people coming into our server will ruin our community” there would be riots

nobody is saying that. I thik it needs to be made very clear (as if it wasn’t already) nobody is exluding straight people. the community is mainly suggesting ‘bigots are not welcome’.
after all if someone said “no straight people” they would be a bigot, so I think most of us could probably agree that any objections here are against bigotry, not against any particular group.

[Baltic-stormrage]

The issue is if I was horrible person and attacked you for being transgender, People would be outraged. I would instantly be arrested and charged with a hate crime and outed to the public, While what happened to me was messed up and nobody cared because it was white stright male on white stright male crime.

Different types of descrimination. happen to both.

I’m tottaly with you in the real situation if you’re talking about transgender, I think they face the most issues in real life when walking down the street out of most LGBTQ people if they get recognised as a transgender person. However I don’t think it’s to that extreme in world of warcraft especially when there is measures in place to protect you.

For example I don’t think transgender destimination is invalid because people with down syndrome get picked on even more, That’s the point I’m trying to make really.

[Triadne-quelthalas (Triadne)]

@Baltic-stormrage

what happened to me was messed up and nobody cared because it was white stright male on white stright male crime.

actually I can relate to this more than you might realise.
before i transitioned, I was viciously attacked by my landlord in my own home.
Then when i was running, scared for my life and going to my friends for help and then going to the hospital to get treated for my injuries, he phoned the police and accused me of attacking his mother. I got arrested and put in a cell for a few hours, while in bandages, and then after the whole ordeal was through they wouldn’t take my own accusations seriously and simply told me to ‘suck it up’ and that i’d ‘just taken a bit of a beating’.
I mean, Inside I am a girl, was a girl, feel like a girl, always have been yet they saw a white male and that is how they treated me. I was utterly broken and homeless on top of it because it clearly was not safe to go back.

so believe me when I say, I understand the plight of the white male and to be frank, most other males. it is hard and more needs to be done.

this is all relative though of course.
yes if I had started transition by that stage, I could have pressed charges for hate crime. but at the same time, the result could have been worse than ‘just a beating’. I might not be here right now typing these words.

[Souldefíler-silvermoon (Souldefíler)]

Parodying South Park and Cartman in particular is very relevant to the thread given the context.

[Kretías-tarren-mill]

@Triadne-quelthalas

told me to ‘suck it up’ and that i’d ‘just taken a bit of a beating’.

No idea how it works in your country but in mine if the police refuses to do stuff because they are a bunch of beeeeeep i simply called my lawyer and lookie lookie they suddenly work. What the threats of a lawyer can do sometimes.

[Daestra-turalyon]

@Shimatsuken-doomhammer

You may ask but I do not owe you any justification about my belief and my family and what I except for them

You do know that being gay,lesbian,bi and pan et all is normal right and nothing to be ashamed or devastated about .

[Metaljaw-defias-brotherhood]

@Baltic-stormrage

There is LGBTQ monsters too. Pretending that only stright people have monsters and judging them before they have even met you is such a terrible way to be. Everyone is an individual. You don’t like being judged for who you are but are happy to judge stright people before you even know them? Hypocrite?

Yeah good luck trying to convince these people they are being hypocritical. They have their dogma and anyone who isn’t 100% on board with them is a bigot or whatever while they can do no wrong.

What’s amusing is that I don’t even believe that the people on that server are all gay or that they cared that much about their gayness. I think they just didn’t want a merge and pulled the gay card cause they know corporations are terrified of arguing with those.

[Titex-tarren-mill]

Because Blizz only cares about their US customers… it’s sad but true

[Kretías-tarren-mill]

@Titex-tarren-mill

Because Blizz only cares about their US customers… it’s sad but true

Tbh it would have been the same for EU if the roles would be reversed. Ignoring EUs problem is one thing. Ignoring the US’ problem on the other hand could really fast turn really ugly as such things could spiral out of control in a heartbeat in regards of their reputation.

And given blizzard still hasnt recovered from their China F-Up this was highly expected behavior from them. Needless to say they should have listened to both EU and US. And attempt to to tackle the portoguese issue another way.

[Braskal-blackmoore]

Maybe some friendly soul out there can explain this to me because I’m having a hard time understanding the problem here. I know some people are easily offended, even if no harm is meant, so I’m fully prepared to take some hate over what I’m about to write.

I have very much an outsiders’ perspective on this as I’m not on an american server nor am I part of the LGBT community. I also have a live and let live mentality. Or in other words: I don’t care. I couldn’t give less of a crap about a persons gender, orientation, color, religion… you name it, i couldn’t care less. So obviously my POV is also that everyone should have the same rights because it doesn’t matter who you are.

At the same time I think it’s questionable to give special treatment to certain groups. If you purposefully fence yourself off from everyone else and then get outraged if people even so much as look at that fence funny, that isn’t equality but classicism and that’s helping nobody. My belief has always been that if you want to be accepted by the world, you have to accept the world as well, flaws and all.

If I look at this completely neutrally then I have to say that this is sexism. “Proudmoore is an LGBT community and we don’t want non LGBT people here” is very much the definition of it when this could have been a shining example of acceptance. Because whether you’re straight or gay, binary or non-binary, Transgender or not, those things should not differentiate you from another person. Instead they have now firmly drawn a line saying “we ARE different” when the message should be “we’re all the same”

[Heavenseeker-silvermoon]

@Triadne-quelthalas

it’s almost as if wanting a place that feels generally friendly to you is some massive crime. no signs, no gates, just a friendly place.
it’s sad to see LGBT people who are bigoted towards LGBT people.

@Triadne-quelthalas

it is a choice between a place that is not known for being LGBT friendly and a place that is known for being LGBT friendly. it’s really not rocket science. if you are LGBT friendly then of course LGBT people would be happy to be around you.

I dunno. Have you ever played on US realms to judge if Hyjal would have been hostile to the LGBT+ community?

[Jånek-argent-dawn]

@Heavenseeker-silvermoon

dunno. Have you ever played on US realms to judge if Hyjal would have been hostile to the LGBT+ community?

In my opinion it wouldn’t be, Proudmoore alone attracts its fair share of trolls just based on it’s server Reputation, Hyjal even has a healthy LGBT community, several LGBT guilds and I know many who play on Proudmoore and keep their horde alts there. Population-wise though it would be like if Blizzard connected EU-TarrenMill to EU-Sylvanas (obviously with the faction roles reversed, and ignoring the fact that in reality that cant happen cause Sylvanas/Tarren Mill are in separate server pools) and that for sure raised some eyes…

I feel like people are reading too much into the fact that Proudmoore was an “LGBT server”… Blizzard doesn’t mention that anywhere in their posts on the issue, had this merger happened it would be the biggest server that blizzard would have ever connected together.