In an interview leading up to Dragonflight they talked about how Heroic raids & guilds’ experience had suffered because Mythic+ just gave way better rewards. So i’m really confused why they thought it’d be a good idea to buff mythic+ gear and nerf raid gear after that acknowledging how it negatively impacted HC raiding.
If this was Shadowlands, Vault of the Incarnates would’ve dropped ilvl 421 loot from every boss and ilvl 428 from the last two bosses. Now nearly 50% of the loot from the mythic raid is worse than what you can get from spamming +16s to craft 418 gear.
Mythic Raszageth only drops gear that is 3 ilvls higher than what you can get from a mythic+ vault as well. I simmed it and Stormlash the intellect dagger from Raszageth sims only 0.3% higher than a 421 dagger from M+ vault. In what universe is this fair? Mythic Raszageth is astronomically harder to do than a +20 Shadowmoon Burial Grounds, it’s not 0.3% harder.
Blizzard needs to buff raid gearing or add some extremely unique & exclusive cosmetic rewards, on par with Challenge Mode cosmetics, to Mythic raiding or it will die just like Heroic raiding did in Shadowlands.
Why put all these resources into making a new raid if you’re just going to incentivize players to not do them?
It’s not bad to have multiple sources of gearing, but it’s bad when one source is 20x better than the other options.
How is it fair that mythic raiders only get 8x concentrated primal focus per week, and we have to clear the entire raid for that, meanwhile you can just spam +16s for an infinite amount of them?
How long does it take for guild group to clear heroic? I haven’t touched raiding this tier but I’d assume 1.5 hours? Even if you pug SBG 8 times it’d take you 20 min per run so almost 3 hours to get 8 primals.
If they want to keep pumping resources into mythic raiding at least make it give better rewards. Tabards, unique transmogs that go away after the tier, better mounts (like glad) etc. This is gonna be my first tier without cutting edge since Jaina btw.
Depends on the guild really. I’d say 1 hour to 1.5 hours if the group is good.
Difference is that pugging the 8x SBGs gives you 405 loot you can upgrade to 415, it gives you concentrated primal focus which lets you craft 418 gear, the HC raid only gives regular primal focus which caps out at 405 and the SBGs give you 421 items in your vault while the HC vault caps out at 411.
You can also only do the raid once per week and you share items with 10-30 people. You can infinitely spam the M+ after those 8, if you just want gear, and you have a higher chance at getting an item from m+.
The activity that rewards good and social behaviour, and attracts people who want to be part of a social community (raiding), should be easier than the activity that rewards toxic and anti-social behaviour (m+).
The increase in difficulty since the launch of SL has really killed raiding.
Hard agree. Especially for Heroic. I miss being able to join HC pugs & clear the entire raid instead of being hardstuck on bosses like in SL & Raszageth this tier.
You’re right, it’s not fair for one kind of content to have way better rewards than the other, and that’s something M+ players has suffered under for years now.
And the changes in DF is a step in the right direction.
As for the Concentrated Primal Focus, yea, it is unfair to only raiders, no doubt about it. And it is something blizzard should look at, it could be that if you take raid loot from vault you get a few of them as a bonus or simply more drop per boss.
As for actual gear, i think the current ilvls distribution is pretty good. Sadly, there are a few dungeons that are far to easy at 20, such as SBG and CoS.
I know you’re just a troll that hates M+ for w/e reason, but do tell how raiding is good for social communities, and M+ isn’t, and how M+ “rewards toxic and anti-social behaviour”
raiding and m+ go hand in hand realistically, you think m+ players arent damaged by the fact you cant get tier sets at the same timr? Ofcourse they are.
If u look at any bis sheet it containd both raid and m+ armour.
Mythic raiding cannibalised itself when blizzard decided to alienate 90% of the playerbase with its extreme difficulty.
People so urgently want WoW to dive its entire accessibility to the top 1% and seem to not understand the situation.
Mythic raiding isnt ignored because its rewards are deemed sub par.
Mythic raiding is ignored, because theres no chsnce a average player is capable of entry of the content.
People who can aknowledge the game beyond a ilevel number are very aware mythic raiding gear is better then m+. Theyre both hand in hand at this point.
If anything mythic raiders dont need to m+ near to the same level a m+ player would need to mythic raid.
I agree with most of what you said.
I absoloutly think that having difficult content like mythic raiding and high M+ is good.
We must also accept on some level that if you do one of those kinds of content, you will have to do the other to be fully optimized.
The changes bliz has done for M+ i would say have brought the two more in line with each other. So if you’re someone that only does M+ now, you can get further than before, before you had to raid.
I think blizzard has made a mistake here, as this fight tore apart multitudes of raiding guilds due to its sheer difficulty.
I dont think the issue is m+ difficulty the issue is mythic raids. Theyre still so set on this game being a esport. They refuse to aknowledge mythic raiding is just too difficult.
M+ is not repeatable content anymore, at least there is no valor cap but i’d say doing a +20 is harder than heroic, yet the rewards are scarce and lower ilvl.
The vault is different but i feel like vault should disappear and instead get the rewards of regular m+/raid increased, aka the wow formula that has worked for years.
CPFs aren’t relevant, tbh. I have about 40 across several characters. What you bottleneck on is Sparks and getting those seems to be random. So far I’ve had 2 extras drop for this character and none for the others. At this rate I’ll be buying them with tokens of merit every other week since the vault seems disinclined to give me upgrades
Also as you point out; you can spam +16s in addition to your +8 from the raid. Nothing stops you from playing the game more after you’ve cleared the raid.
As to cannibalising heroic raiding… agree, M+ still does. I don’t think it cannibalises mythic raiding however, because +20 keys are quite exclusive.
Some data: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-df-1/eu from here we can spot that the top 40% of players (who engage in m+ at all) are about 1450 score. This is slightly below having done everything on a +15. Even the top 10% cutoff is below 2500 score.
The bar has been set some way above the typical skill ceiling and a lot of people are having to accept 415-418 vault loot instead of their preferred 421.
You’re right that mythic Raz is harder than a 20 SBG; but both are very hard things to have “on farm” and the big majority of players can’t do either. I do think that 15s tend to make heroic raiding pointless because 15s are easier, but the jump up to 20s is huge and it doesn’t make mythic raiding any less exclusive.
