You are lying about the 21NO, that is without a question 
I’ll give you that those achivements, yea, they’re properbly right, good job in showing something … But that NO21, nope, didn’t happen in week 2.
And here’s the exact date.
I know this may sound awkward, but people no longer want to put 3 hours straight with ~20 other people who may or may not show up to a kill a boss that will wipe you if one of the ~20 other people messes up and its not your own fault.
The raiding format is old, times changed we’ve been raiding for about 20 years it gets boring and not interesting anymore, there’s nothing blizzard can provide that we haven’t seen before with the current raid format.
Raiding would be more fun if it was more pug friendly, had well defined non raid wiping abilities, way more bosses and filler bosses and it was easier to log in, quickly form a group aimed at killing one of a very large roster of bosses for its loot.
Mythic raiding can stay as is, it’s for the elite players and not many players have access to that nor the time or patience to put up with 19 other players and commit to a strict work schedule.
But normal and heroic raids need to change.
So about the same as it was in SL.
Its a caster weapon. Unless a caster weapon has an effect or your bis stats in comparison to your dungeon alternative this will always be the case.
So? The same goes for every Raid Endboss (or even non endboss like SLG) in comparison to its Max Dungeon loot counterpart.
No. They dont. The way it is right now is absolutely fine. Also there are several items in the raid that are more than just attractive.
In Sepulcher the regular bosses dropped ilvl 278 while the last 3 dropped 285. So 7 ilvls higher than anything else, now it’s only 3.
Not true. It’s still bis even for specs it’s stats aren’t the best for because of the increased intellect.
If you’re gonna compare the hardest content from dungeons then compare it to the hardest content from raids, which is when WF guilds kill it.
It isn’t. Unless they want mythic raiding to end up the way HC raiding has, then something needs to change. Whether that’s through buffing raid gear or by adding better cosmetics it’s up to them.
I had enough of tier sets being “raid-locked” at the start. Buffing raid gear and you risk the old “raid or die” philosophy unto m+ runners and possibly pvp guys as well…
Yes. About the same. Plus items such as Grieftorch. Or even the ring from broodkeeper if i want to nitpick.
I am not talking about it being bis or not. Im talking about its % increase.
WF Guilds are irrelevant. And im comparing M20 with Mythic Raids.
We already have attractive items in the raid. Regardless of Raszageths Trinket being trash.
I also think catalyst not being available week one was really dumb. I don’t think gating tier behind the raid is the correct approach, but raid gear needs to be better than it is right now or we need a lot better cosmetics.
Grieftorch isn’t higher ilvl, but the ring is. It’s a very rare item though and it’s only one item. Still, having 7 higher ilvl on every item is better than only one item being 10 higher. Especially when it barely drops.
The % increase was higher in previous expansions, mainly because the ilvl was higher, but still. The raids have gotten harder while the rewards from the raids have gotten worse, it’s a very bad combination.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood your comment. Most raid bosses are harder than +20s yes, so it makes no sense that the items they reward are barely better.
Every spec has more bis items from M+ than from the raid so in terms of attractive items i’d give the edge to M+ still.
I cant do sunday either ironically, i dunno i went through ravencrests guild ads and i saw friday occuring alot
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Ah so its only about the “ilvl” for you and not about the power of the item. Only one aspect of an items strength and arguably its least important one.
As “rare” as the other “very rare items”. Ergo not as rare as you think.
The whole package counts. Ilvls are irrelevant. Actually i can take the ring even as an example. The ring is a dps loss for me despite being 431 simply because the ilvl on a ring is the most irrelevant part of it under certain circumstances.
Vault is easier than SL.
The first 4 bosses are easier. By a landslide. Dathea and Kurog are around the same level. Maybe slightly above. Only Broodkeeper and Ras are harder.
Only a tiny amount of people actually raid. Even before m+ was a thing. M+ offers more relevant endgame content which is a good thing for any game. Not everyone wants to spend 6 hours trying to clear a raid 2 days a week, it’s a chore for a lot of people, not a fun pass time activity like what games should be
Classic Wrath had really good raid numbers on release on release… and that was like half a year ago…
Classic TBC = good raid numbers
Classic WoW = good raid numbers
Even the lats tier of BFA had let us call it acceptable numbers. Where players were able to outgear everything with corruptions (although if u are going to argue this was due to Covid, fair play).
Again Classic WoW was massively successful, so there definitely is a market for this. Although Ulduar shows that even a slight increase in actual difficulty throws people off. The idea, which some throw around here, that people raid for a ´´challenge´´ is if you look at the numbers, completely wrong.
Lfr, normal and Heroic numbers were also not terrible during both Legion and BFA.
Although Curvyboi might not agree with me, I agree with pretty much everything he/she/it has put forward in this thread. It is good to see people fighting for heroic raids, because honestly, I feel like heroic raids are the lifeblood of WoW post-WoD.
Right now though they are in a very awkward spot. Too difficult and not rewarding enough at the same time. I feel like the lack of logs speak for themselves.
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The gear from heroic is useless, basically transmog runs or disenchanting
Who needs 402 when you can get 411 from 15 keys?
People do vault raid for a trinket a ring and a bow. The rest is useless
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see the thing about wow raiding, its 70% not fighting the boss. forming the raid is agonisingly slow, and cut in half if you somehow get a warlock in.
M+ is by far Blizzard’s greatest idea for end-game content bc let’s be real, PvP and Raiding is a literal Rock and a Hard Place. PvP is the most fundamentally flawed crap and Raiding really is losing steam.
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My opinion is exactly the opposite. I deeply hate M+ and everything related to them. The timer… The IO index… The breakable stone system… The stress and the hurry for no reason at all. And people who raid are being “forced” to do M+ , if not the ILV difference in raid is too much.
Besides of that I hate how Blizzard is managing the situation. All is in M+ favor. More ILVL in an easier content, Upgradable items… And if you don’t like them or need the tier, you can change it for the raid tier…
Why can’t i change my crap raid trinkets or rings for a shinny M+s ones with perfect stats??
As I respect that some people likes M+, the only solution i can think of is just COMPLETELY SEPARATE both contents… Just forbid enter in one with equip from the other. So this way every one can do their favorite, or both.
Sorry about my poor english…,
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What all of them have in common that they were superbly easy and had lots of bosses.
Totally agree, there’s a reason why flex raiding was superbly popular in MoP and with the addition of Oqueue you could make up a raid in as much time needed as you’d form an M+ group.
Raid trinkets are vastly superior, you need the tier sets and to top it off, you get 1 item every week that may or may not be an upgrade, or may be a duplicate.
Also M+15 is much harder than heroic raids, only diff its spammable which could be remedied by giving raids more bosses and filler bosses ( easy loot pinata bosses like spoils of pandaria )
I personally agree with you but the player base for classic is really really small.
becuase its time to finaly remove raiding from game
lets be honest here - it has had nothing but negative impact on game for years now - time to remove it and alongisde with it to remove all toxic mythic raiders.
Your english is fine!!
You are completely correct. The truth is, yes I do believe M+ is the only thing keeping WoW alive currently, but it is because Blizzard have done such an awful job with end-game content.
A very very large part of the WoW playerbase HATES timed stressful content. This goes all the way back to Vanilla where they introduced a timer for Strat where there were complaints on the forum back in the day.
Being stressed by a timer and the possibility of punishing failure (losing a key level) is completely fine and normal. There needs to be proper content for these people. Raiding in its current state is a complete failure and does not suffice.
Death runs
Only summoning with Warlocks
Same boring let´s create a 25 man mythic raid every tier. No creativity.
Too difficult
Gearing too bad
Blizzard have not figured out a way for raiders to outgear the raid since removing titanforging and Domination Shards (yes I disliked Dom Shards too, but they had a purpose).
Mythic Raiding will eventually just implode on itself. I enjoy the difficulty of mythic raiding but I’m hard stuck on the roster boss. Yesterday raid was cancelled because we only had 18/20 people and good luck finding people to join on someone else’s lockout at 2/8.
The “infinitely farm-able” argument is 100% BS, because a +20 is only dropping 405 gear, while much more difficult that heroic content which also drops higher item level.
Sure you can upgrade your gear, but don’t forget that most people don’t have the 2500 score to get to this upgrade level either, while heroic is again much easier to complete.
Mythic+ gets you a nice quick start for heroic and mythic raiding at the start of an expac, and after that it’s mainly up to RNG whether or not you’re getting gear upgrades from the vault. Don’t forget that the majority of players don’t do +20 keys and don’t have access to the highest upgrade/vault levels.