Well the topic is about “cannibalize heroic raiding”. The top end isn’t really relevant for heroic raiders.
And yes more gear is going to help us A LOT for getting into +20’s.
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So we’re talking top players? Good, at that level you have always had to do both, deal with it. That’s the game if you reach the top 1%
So now you’re comparing people that go all in on M+ with rubbish raiders?
I can admit, I’m an average raider, I’m not that good at it… i still pugged the first mythic boss before i even finished my first 20… both in week 3…
Was a great raid, first big add spawns, tank doesnt take agro, i get one banged and spent 5min enjoying the floor pov while the boss was killed.
I drew a parallel to that. I talked about how mythic+ gearing being better cannibalized heroic raiding and that the same will happen with Mythic raiding since they buffed M+ gear while also nerfing mythic raid loot at the same time.
I’m not complaining about having to do Mythic+. Have you even read the post? I like Mythic+, I think it’s the best addition to the game they’ve ever made, although I dislike dragonflight dungeons.
My point is that Mythic+ gearing is just so good that it removes a lot of incentive to do mythic raiding and how the raid either needs a new incentive or for gear to get buffed if they’re gonna stick to the usual and only keep gear as an incentive.
Rubbish? That’s rude.
Well if we’re using anecdotal evidence, I timed +21 tyrannical nokhud on week2 with my guildys. Average ilvl of 405.8 and we were 3 caster dps so very few kicks in the group for a Nokhud. Again if you’re 405 now and struggle with +20 keys or lower, after a mountain of nerfs, it’s just a skill issue. Those players aren’t who i’m talking about.
Did you now… thats cool… only 15 timed 21 Nokhud that week, and a repeat… so 14 teams managed that… amazing how you did that while your account doesnt have KSM…
So what team were you in? Jdotb maybe? I’ve done a key with him in SL, he’s sick at the game…
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If you raid just for gear you are doing it wrong, raiding mythic is about pushing and working as a team and the thrill of the kill and finally getting that CE and the stuff that comes with it.
With weekly vault for m+ you have to be really lucky to get anything decent out of it.
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Not to forget JdotB doesn’t made it a secret he isn’t enjoying raiding, but he is doing it for the ilvl so he can push higher keys.
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Yes I did. Not sure why this character’s armory hasn’t updated since SL, but here’s a screenshot of the Keystone Hero achievement I have.
I wasn’t on JB’s team no, I played with guildys. Just a group of rubbish raiders.
I don’t raid just for gear, no. But gear is a big incentive in this game, we see this constantly. With fewer incentives there’s less reason for people to try the content out. It also means people are more likely to quit raiding because there’s just not a lot of reason left to raid. You can still be on discord & have fun with your friends while everyone’s doing keys instead of raiding.
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I can find screenshots on wowhead as well, how about answering on the char you did 21 nokhud with in week 2?
Is this better? I’d rather not mention characters I play. Last time I posted on a char I regularly play, I got some weird messages in-game.
Mythic + is what keep people playing this game.
Raiding is cool but consuming too much time. Raids are too big and too complex.
I think more lesser raids instead one big would be more enjoyable.
I think raids should have higher difficult gap between heroic and mythic, mythic for real hardcore players and heroic for rest (to this solution ppl have to grow up to idea that not whole content is for them).
Well, let me put this clearly.
If I want to run difficult MMO Dungeons, I run M+ in WoW.
If I want to have a fun raiding experience with loot rewards, I play Destiny 2.
Why? Because WoW Raids don’t give enough rewards, the gear gets retired/sunset after a season and it takes a lot more than just 6 people to raid while in Destiny 2 I get a gun or armor piece on every encounter of the raid per character per week, Raids can also work with 5/6 people (if you are good enough) and they are much more fun and immersive than “dodge AoE all the time” and “try not to die to XY stupid mechanic”. Also all the gear is upgrade-able and never sunsets.
they should make heroic raid gear become mythic lvl and normal become m15 and mythic raider +5 ilvl
This.
Too many of us are nostalgic and can’t admit that the current modern playerbase doesn’t have the patience to sit down for 2-3hrs to do a full raid, especially when it’s a wipefest because of many reasons.
M+ is more direct, quicker, easier to start.
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I’m gonna give you some advice for the future, if you’re gonna lie, don’t ever be specific, because it’s so easy to check 
We both know you’re lying right now, that screenshot was really the final nail in the coffin so to say…
There are no accounts, who did NO 21 in week 2, and got the Hero achivements on those dates …
So now you have 2 options, you can backpedal on the 21 NO, and try and claim the screenshots are true and you were mistaken on the 21 NO… Or you can admit you’re just a liar.
If you chose the first, fair enough, i’m still gonna call you a liar tho.
Also, rather doubt anyone has /w you because of forums, we both know, it’s because if you hide on an alt, you can just make things up, and most people won’t call you out on it.
It would still be too little too late.
Mythic raiders need to kill 5 bosses per week starting week 1 to not fall behind. I don’t understand how blizz could screw up their math this hard.
Indeed… Funny how out of the 70 people who actually did NO21 week 2, most of them are also CE players, wonder why, if mythic raiding isn’t rewarding enough anymore.
Could also cut the number down even more, the 14 temas, that’s the world… We’re ofc on EU forums, so we’d only have to look at EU teams.
The solution is incredibly simple.
They need do make raid gear upgradeable with with valor based on certain achievements similar to m+. Raid bosses should also drop Valor.
This would make alot more people raid every week on all difficulties.
It’s actually bizarre why this haven’t been implemented yet.
I am totally fine when he got his +20’s in the first week. We all are totally aware he is in the top 0.00001% when he did this. I ignore every post about skills. I am fine others are way better than me. There is no need to get a discussion with a professional
Yeah, in the end when you want to be a pro and do the highest keys you need to raid, since your BiS is a mix of raid and M+.
Personally, i still call bs… but yea, it is pointless to discuss it with an alt that won’t post anything that links the achivements back to the char he posts with.
100% and that’s nothing new, remember how everyone had to pvp in SL season 1 as well, at least the top guys 
I like M+ as well, even though I dislike the Dragonflight dungeons. I think it’s a great system. I just don’t think it should be this much better at gearing up in compared to raids.
I agree. They need to add some good incentives to raids or overhaul them. Which is why I mentioned it makes no sense for them to put all this effort & resources into the raids when they treat it like they currently do.
I’m not lying though. Dunno why I didn’t think of this earlier, but here you go. I logged in on the char where all my achievements are updated.
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