Blizzard Has Killed Arena in WOTLK

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
22

According to your history you didn’t even play the game during WOTLK. And you stopped playing in 2015, a 2200 rated player, then came back suddenly in Shadowlands and reach 2700 for the first time after a month. So either you got boosted (or abused the rogue Kyrian covenant and 1-shot your way to glad super early) or you play on more than one account. Like i do.

None of that matters though, because your point is invalid. “Debate the position, not the person” is fundamental. The bracket isn’t “easier”, it’s subjective - the bracket is as hard as the players playing it. My rating or the cost of your gladiator title are irrelevant to this discussion.

23

You can’t just singlehandedly focus on one part of my post and pretend it’s the only thing I wrote

2.7 in 2s (as you can tell by my tabard), I was good enough for top 50 in 2s but still too awful to get duelist in 3s so if anything my incompetence at the time proves my own point : - D

Seems like you missed the part where I specifically told you why that’s not the case

Why not both? Am I not allowed to make fun of you when you refuse to think about something for longer than 10 seconds?

24

2v2 and 5v5 in wotlk are noob brackets for mouthbreathers, they should never share any reward that 3v3 players get. Inferior skilless players = same reward good logic.

1 Like
25

I don’t understand the issue. If everyone plays 2v2, it’s hard to get Gladiator in 2v2. The system balances itself.

1 Like
26

According to achievements you got 2.7 in 3’s, I can see your three’s company achieves in early 2021. You don’t have any higher than 2200 in 2’s. Not sure if you’re confused or lying? Irrelevant to the discussion though.

Trying to disparage an individual instead of being able to adequately prove/disprove what they’re saying shows your argument isn’t solid enough to stand up to debate. Instead some people try to sway peoples opinion by attacking the other person, which is exactly what politicians (and specifically American politicians) do. They don’t need to be “Right”, they just need the “Popular vote”. If your objective is to make the game better through your debate on these forums, then you should be aiming for the objectively best solution, not just imposing your own will regardless of the objective detrimental impact to the game overall.

No I read it. You argument is “more things going on = harder”. In 2’s there are less things going on, but that means managing those things and making mistakes have a bigger impact. Arguably is less random and therefore more skill based, instead of being based around who makes more mistakes losing in 3v3, it’s based around who makes less mistakes wins in 2v2.

27

The issue is that since there is only 4 players the game becomes linear and there is a ceiling to how much skill you can express. The system does not balance itself and it does not get harder and harder the higher you go. Eventually you get to a point where the only thing that matters are matchups, everyone who’s been high rated in both brackets understands this.

The best analogy I have is tic-tac-toe, it doesn’t matter if you’re a 300 iq once in a lifetime genius, if your opponent knows the strats he will draw every game. If the strats are as easy as they are in 2s then this is the situation you’ll find yourself in

28

Yea but people are arguing an opinion as fact instead of using facts to form an opinion.

29

This I agree! Wholeheartedly!

but

I thought people did Arenas because it was fun, or to hone and show off their skills. I seem to have misunderstood something essential here.

30

bad analogy. That’s a solved game, arena isn’t solved.
You could have chosen chess, which IS a solved game, but the skill cap is too high to play perfectly. But maybe you did that on purpose.

1 Like
31

You misunderstand what people complain about. The real reason is something along the lines of “But I played 3v3 for the last 10 years in wotlk private servers and perfected my play and comp, what so you mean there’s now another way”

32

A bit of a selfreport considering there aren’t any 2.2+ achievements in 2v2. Just look at either my tabard or my statistics for evidence.

Have you considered the possibility that it’s easy to not make mistakes when there isn’t a lot going on? Look at my tic-tac-toe example above. (and yes 2v2 is pretty damn close to being solved for a lot of comps lol, especially with 10 years of private server experience. If anything your chess example would be the perfect analogy for 3v3)

I’ve given this a lot of thought in addition to having the perspective of what’s required to be higher rated in both 2s and 3s. Sorry for disrespecting you but it’s not a coincidence that most high rated players agree on this

33

Thanks for your opinion. When you have something concrete to add, go ahead. Spurious logical gymnastics don’t count.

34

Chess is literally harder precisely because there are more things going on XD

cope

You mean spurious logical gymnastics like this? o_o

35

You don’t understand the issue cuz you probably never played arena in your life, issue is , rewards got removed from 2s because it was insanely imbalanced bracket, so no it wouldn’t be hard to get gladiator if you play 2 fotm comps that are the only ones viable, unless you want entire pvp community to roll same 4 specs.

3v3 has a alot more VIABLE comps that you can compete as, for whole range of specs and not just 4 (or alot alot less than 3v3) that can be represented in 2v2 bracket.

Why would a rank1 player of x class be stuck in duelist range in 2v2 against some 3v3 challenger having to play 10 times better than him to win just because his class is unviable in the most imbalanced bracket there is.

inb4 some1 says that RMP or TSG or LSP is op in 3s so its “same” case and identical problem like in 2v2, yea nope its maybe 5 times worse in 2v2 than 3v3 and this is the reason 3v3 is superior bracket, and other brackets don’t deserve same rewards, having titles in 2v2 and 5v5 only diminishes any reward a 3v3 player of superior skill gets.

TLDR : if you can’t earn a reward in most competitive and fair bracket you don’t deserve the chance to get it in any other bracket, this is same like those transwomen competeing in women sports to win , when in their propper bracket they are ultra bad and not worth mentioning.

This is REALITY any1 saying otherwise is either casual or biased probably because he knows his spec is a faceroll in 2s and wants to meme his way out. If anyone ever played warmane or even vanilla wotlk when people were still bad at the game compared to today is 100% aware that this is factual and not an opinion. If there is competition then there is no room for holding any1s hand that is just not good enough.

And i understand some people just like playing 2s, maybe they know they are not good enough or don’t have enough awareness for 3v3, afterall there is alot more going on, i would be down for making seperate rewards for 2v2 people, seperate titles and mounts, same rewards however are not acceptable.

1 Like
36

You can get Gladiator in 2v2 in TBC and yet you can still run 5v5 and 3v3 matches no problem at 4am, no shortage of players running them. And wasn’t S5 and S6 available to get Gladiator in 2v2 anyway? Honestly I think that retail should also have 2v2 glad and a return to 5v5 too.

Why does any of this matter? When you start arguing which is or isn’t the most OP comp or whatever bla bla bla as a reason for not having a reward in other brackets, it’s just a bit sweaty.

If someone played a stronger class and got an easier reward then why is that a big deal? Is every Rogue gladiator in TBC now invalid, you have to get Gladiator on “insert weaker class” to make it a valid expression of your skill?

It’s not that serious mate, play the game and get some shiny rewards, the broken stuff is half of the fun, nobody cares about balance in WoW PvP, if you did you certainly wouldn’t be playing WOTLK.

37

Its very clear that you are like 1500 or lower player, queue is literally UNAVAILABLE in 5v5 at 4am, how can some1 allow themselves to say that 5v5 and 3v3 is alive in TBC at 4am and still stay alive is beyond my comprehension (maybe on below 1800mmr or some other noob rating , than any discussion here is literally none of your concern, you arent getting any relevant rewards anyways), if i just queued now at 2:22AM i would wait 10+mins in queue and get +0 for a win in either of those brackets.

And answer to your question is literally in the quote , im really convinced that you are just beyond clueless player, probably 1300-1500 rated and maybe do 10 games a week just by reading this response, no1 is talking about which comps are strongest, this is a talk about brackets and which one is the most balanced and fair no matter how imbalanced it really is, just that which one is MOST balanced simple as that nothing more nothing less. which TURD TASTES THE SWEETEST.

Nop , no rogue title from any rogue is invalid, they played stronger class in MOST COMPETITIVE bracket and got their title, are you seriously dense enough to suggest that if for example duels gave out same titles as 2v2 in TBC gives out now, would be perfectly acceptable, i mean what top 50 ranks would be 50 rogues? and duels would clearly be the least competitive bracket. For you that is normal and acceptable ? Because that scenario is exaggerated form of 2v2 and 3v3 in wotlk.

And i don’t care if you find it serious or not, i can perfectly understand that some people don’t care, same like i don’t care about women football, however if there is competitive ladder and a community no matter how small finds it competitive in whatever it is (for exmaple of there was a competition in loudest fart), then there are some lines and standards that should facilitate best conditions for said activity and its INTEGRITY - this is like the basic logic and understanding and there is no refuting that.

No1 here is talking about wow balance either, no1 is trying to balance game, are you even aware of whats the topic here? Removing titles from a bracket is not a balance change, do you even understand whats going on here or what? Or did u just come here to say random stuff that is not even connected to the issue or the topic here and pretend you contributed anything to the discussion?

38

It doesn’t matter, how many players play the upper ratings doesn’t matter. The success of the game is not based on the top end players. Obviously at the top ratings you have less people to play, because there are far less people at the top ratings and there is nothing you can do about that. Crying about some people now playing 2v2 for rewards is not going to make a damned bit of difference to your 3v3.

Having rewards in 2v2 will cause some people who werent going to bother, to actually bother. Your problem seems to be self defeating because you’re aware that 2v2 is broken, by that same extension people who don’t play the broken comps might have more success in 3v3 where balance is better anyway, so how does 2v2 kill 3v3?

The balance is bad however you cook it, stop looking at WoW arena like it’s some balanced and serious PVP game, it’s not. You’re taking the whole thing very serious because you’re mad some people playing an overpowered comp are going to get a title/mount that they earned a little easier than you… A bit like every Rogue in TBC.

I’m going to give you a pass this once, but that was the stupidest thing I’ve read on these forums for a while. Just pure aimless verbal diarrhoea. You can do better.

39

LOL

Well of course it matters how many players are playing in upper ratings, why should anyone sit in 10min queue to get a +0 points for a win? The only bracket that is relevant in any competitive sport or activity is the top bracket, everything is balanced and decided around that top bracket this is like most BASIC logic and understanding that you seem to be void of :smiley: in many things it seems.

Having rewards in 2v2 will also following most basic logic, split the community in some extent, there is clear evidence of this in TBC, and therefore kill the queues to some extent as well, again no1 should ever sit in a 10min queue to win +0 points for his effort and time.

“The balance is bad however you cook it, stop looking at WoW arena like it’s some balanced and serious PVP game, it’s not.”

Where do you come up with random ideas like this, are you trying to put some words that were never said in my mouth to make it look like you have a ground to stand on in this discussion LOL??? And you keep doing it quite alot, earlier you said that we are here discussing how to balance the game or something, what the hell is wrong with you, do you seriously believe you can just out of blue make smth up and put words in my mouth and thats gonna slide unnoticed?
Is your tiny brain really not capable of understanding that if 3v3 is less broken than 2v2, a fix for this was implemented in wotlk and titles were removed in s7 onwards, then there is no reason to remove this simple fix, i might have to use MS Paint and make you a picture if you mention that wow pvp is not balaned, as if not every person on this planet that played the game is not aware of that, and as if its some kind of argument to brake things that were fixed over 10 years ago.

I am glad that you accepted the reality that 2v2 is more broken than 3v3, that is the pure reason ever since WOTLK game was going in direction of removing titles and rewards from 2v2, and later disabling 5v5 as a qeueue completely, and again your brain doesnt have capacity to understand the issue here why are you even bringing up that 2v2 is going to kill 3v3, issue here is plain and simple removing titles and rewards from 2v2 was a FIX to integrity issue of competitive arena, why are we out of the blue deciding to brake it again, there is clearly no good argument for it, you certenly did not provide one, at least the one that is not pure braindamage or complete disregard for any integrity.

Again this was fixed in wotlk, it was fixed for a reason and there is no reason to brake something thats fixed, reasons did not change and they never will change.

I wll also say this again, i do not care if you think WoW is an esport or serious or not, your opinion on this is literally IRRELEVANT because it does not concern you, you are a low rated casual noob and thats fine, your opinion is not relevant or required from simple reason that it doesn’t concern you, i am not going around rocket scientists telling them which fuel they should use in their rockets and neither should you talk about whats acceptable or not in competitive activity that you are not part of.

And regarding the most stupidest thing you’ve read, please if you are like over 15 years old and i hope you are, seriously please explain what was so stupid about it in a form of counter argument, because then i can take your point of view chop it down into smallest parts and then destroy them one by one - this is how argument over anything works.
I really have like no respect for your feelings or whatever you find smart or stupid, all i care is a resemblance of argument that i can attempt to destroy with my own, this way i can also just say you are most stupid person i’ve ever encountered and what are we gonna run in circles , are you a kid or maybe you didn’t understand what was said - i do see the latter happening quite alot here ?

1 Like
40

Sorry, blizzard is right on this one, 2v2 should give titles.
No one should feel obligated to play 3v3 just to get rewards. 3v3 is my favourite bracket and where I achiev higher ranks but 2v2 has its perks.
There’s classes that work way better in 2s (just like there’s some that are fotm in 3s) and it’s way easier to find people to play 2s than 3s, pvp community unfortunately insn’t big as before.
Don’t be selfish, let people play which bracket they want.

1 Like
41

Then give them different titles so there’s an incentive to do both brackets?

1 Like