Also the whole tone “any loot”, who wants to loot the worst trinket or pair of wrist for their spec that are just IL upgrades to sit in bags? Give me nothing and ML that stuff away to people who actually want it. During BoD I noly ever managed to drop 1 trinket and is was just as good as WQ one… Nice feeling that the game says: “hey this is BoP!”. Guildie went 3 weeks without loot, nothing from normal, HC or mythic progression. 4th week 1 HC item. Our tank looted nearly every piece of gear he could and was going for mogs…
With ML those items would have been distributed evenly with this magical awesome PL you guys enforced on content you didn’t even do (most of whom supported it) guild raiding says 1 is insanely good geared and they carry the unlucky. Now this a guild and eventually hopefully they can start trading but if a pug and you such luck. Well you’re screwed.
Pug leader: “Well you’re IL is too low”
You with severe bad luck: “PL ISN’T GIVING ME LOOT FFS!”
Pug leader: “I don’t care try next tier again”.
That’s one thing BfA has done right, personal loot.
It forces people to have an etiquette if they wish something traded to them.
Before I had to put up with swindlers and brown nosers killing guilds because they’d get all the loot, giving the huge middle finger to everyone else except the loot officer.
“well I get highest dps so I deserve it all”
“you get highest dps because you’re getting all the loot, genius”
Now they’re forced to be decent human beings to everyone in the off chance Joe over there or Jimmy get something they want in the future, I bet that really stings them worse than a firey poker.
Equally it results in people going weeks without seeing anything, or, and this is even better, it actively frustrates you by giving you loot.
You need loot from 2nd boss, you receive an item that you don’t want, isn’t any use to you from first boss. Now you’re almost assured not to get anything from 2nd boss. Nothing you can do about it.
Not really. If anything, with Personal Loot people are encouraged to keep loot they don’t need – for gold, DE materials, Titan Residuum – instead of it going to someone for whom it would be an upgrade. Or, in a PUG, you hold onto it in case you want to “trade” it for something someone else might get. As someone else said, it emphasizes the “I” instead of the “Team”, except I don’t see this as a plus.
Master Looter had already only been available in guild runs (I think it was 80%). It wasn’t a problem in PUGs because ML hadn’t been an option in PUGs for several years. The removal of ML had nothing to do with PUGs or protecting players. It was done to sabotage split runs and slow down the gearing process of hyper competitive guilds.
Even if you don’t get loot on the first boss in a dungeon or raid, there are always three to four bosses after. For a very long time I’ve not left a raid or dungeon without least one piece of loot for my effort. I’m not sure what game you’re playing, but it’s definitely not retail! Weeks without loot, Lol, that sounds like a mega over exaggeration someone makes when they’re going for hyperbole.
Personal Loot is a plague on the game. All of Blizzard’s nonsense about it being forced in order to reduce loot drama is just an obfuscation to the real reason they did it: to kill split runs, which they colossally failed to do.
Most of the people against Master Looter apparently only raid LFR and therefore have no actual experience with it except second hand hyperbolic drama stories - which in turn are usually from people with no experience using it.
Honestly would mind personal loot all that much if you could trade it no matter what, that way you still have the freedom as a guild to distribute loot, but in pugs it’s still just given to players randomly.
Especially with the restriction based on ilvl, when ilvl means nothing this tier, it is ridiculous.
I still think it should go back to the way it was where you could choose the loot style, but i could make a compromise with free trading.
Gosh this topic again ML was good and it was by far the best system for guilds doing mythic,progressing or Cutting edge not only for top 100 or method.
It’s benefits far outweights anything to the point of you being in such a guild means you aren’t an as*hole 90% of the times.
Every single person that comments on ML abot how bad it is or how many cons it has without having CE regulary and or progressing final bosses of mythic has absolutly 0 weight in what they say. It’s as beliavable as me giving you advice on stock. If you didn’t partake in that content ML DOES NOT affect you since legion it was set at 80% guild and everyone and i mean absolutly everyone agrees that it can be put to 100% guild participation required (if it will ever come back ). I’d actually go a step forward and say that it needs to be allowed in mythic only but there are heroic guilds that also wanted it from other topics.
The reason we lost ML was because blizzard saw that the players consumed the content too fast because we were using ml too much and gearing efficiently not because loot drama,ninjalooting or what else. All those stories are cata/MOP/WRATH stories i haven’t seen 1 real story of ninja looting in legion(when the 80% mark was added). But no let’s lie as to why we are removing ml and let the sheeps that do only LFR defend as us alywas.
A quick glance at a majority of those people defending FORCED personal loot can tell you their experience in mythic raiding is equal to null. Just let us have ML back in 9.0 ,raiding has never felt crappier.
Not necessarily. I have experienced loot drama stories both in small group of friends, and raiding guild back then in vanilla. Long story short, I was missing the T2 gloves (that, and the helm), and I was next in line for that for a while now, but then one of the officer’s girlfriend joined us to BWL in basically greens/blues, so when the T2 gloves dropped, it was given to her because “bigger upgrade for her, you already have T1”. I complained and got kicked.
Now, if personal loot was in place, and the gloves were given to either of us, since we can’t trade, maybe the other one would have huffed and puffed a little at the RNG, but there’d be no option for any such drama.
But what if you don’t kill those three to four bosses after?
What if you only kill one or two?
Seems to me like you only did lfr or normal and now are giving lessons to us on how master loot is a bad system.
Another story from 15 years ago that no one can verify if it was true and we have to take your word for it.
Even if it is true, like I said guilds that do this tend to die fairly quickly because of things like this.
If something like this happens and people are being silent about it then they’re equally at fault as the person that is actually not awarding loot properly.
Did something like this actually happen to you recently or was the last time you got cheated out of loot almost 15 years ago if this story is true?
I very much doubt there would be no drama.
There is still drama with PL today, like if someone gets very lucky with loot in the first few weeks of a new raid they’re much more likely to be brought in for mythic progression exactly BECAUSE of that luck.
Yes, but to be fair, I went casual for TBC and left the game for a long while, and only returned in late Legion, also casually So not many options for such drama.
Up until we played classic where once again there’s complaining when I roll either on cloth, or any int/stam/spellpower gear in general (to be clear, I play healer, not feral where it would be silly to roll need on gear for multiple specs).
Classic is classic retail is retail the problems you are facing in classic don’t exist in retail if we had ML. that’s why i also mentioned no one is showing proof of that happening post wod absoltulty all horror stories are nothing but fake things created by GD OR are pre Legion. Legion did 1 big thing with ML and that is add the 80% mark for pugs . Cause that was the problem ,pugs screwing over pugs.
They were rendered null because you are playing LEGION not because of forced personal loot. Legion didn’t have Forced personal loot and you should understand how much of a difference that is. You could opt into ml if you didn’t run mm content.
Happend to one guild, recruited a new RL (I CBA to speak and raid, can’t focus on both due to a speech depandant, I only speak clearly if I use a phone or don’t do anything else so I can focus on my volume and to speak clearly not slurring certain letter. Don’t ever ask me to say circus or circle…), he invited his girlfriend and friends. Well those friends pushed me all the time. In the end the relationship was so bad their main tank/dps (me) or them as group had to be removed. I got kicked, 3 people also left about complaints over the new RL and the next tier their progress was slow (they weren’t the best players in the guild). I was comfortably pugging H HFC effortlessy when they were stuck, on HC 5 bosses. During Legion they came further because they kicked power hungry RL and his wife/girlfriend. They did better, first 3 (or was it two?) tiers they even manged to get a few mtyhic kills in (easy ones), guild died in AtBT though. Yes this is the efffect of power hungry officiers or in rare cases corrupt ML or loot council.
It was the reason I stopped. I was so severly unlcuky it was noticable, I still don’t have good trinkets this entire expansion form raids. They simply refuse to dropand when people got doubles they coudln’t trade me. But hey atleast a corrupt ML can’t give his girlfriend anymore, right?!
Forced PL was a thing in Legion, people used to take lowbies or friend into farm raids. They stopped doing that because if 80% wasn’t from the same guild it was forced PL. Even if you were on each other friendlist or were RL or battlenet friends.
Hyperbole, this happens. PL has no safety net. ML had that safety net. Yes it took for that guy 4 HC clears to get 1 piece. I only ever managed 1 trinket from HC/mythic in BoD (each and the bad one) and only ever 1 trinket from HC/mythic Uldir (together) in total. PL will and can screw you but can also decide that 1 person can get loot nearly every boss for just being lucky. ML:
ML: “John, you already got your weapon, we need to gear the raid aswell so we are giving this pair of legs from 2 bosses later to the other melee”
PL: “Screw you, John gets all the loot and the other guy? NOTHING!”
He was on the verge of quitting, no wonder really why wouldn’t you when you get nothing for weeks and the other guy doing the same runs getting showered in gear. Yes even with ML this could have happend but then it would be a guild problem, “Oh damn we just can’t seem to get leather gear at all!”! Right now with PL it’s a you problem if you get unlucky and you just get booted to the bench eventually because of dps requirements you can’t match anymore.
True.
I was thinking in a way we could convince Blizzard to somehow reinstate ML without completely reverting the change they made. Instead of telling them they were absolutely wrong, just let them think they were on the right track with their idea. Makes them feel better and maybe more cooperative.
You know, compromising.
But I do agree, the change to remove ML was unnecessary. Everyone was free to choose if they wanted to raid with a guild that used either system.
Not to get to deep into that subject but I have 1 simple question: how good friends are they really if you feel bad after playing with them?
I don’t raid myself and I really don’t have an interest in either PL or ML. But I did raid, and I have been in a guild that used ML so it’s not like I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Why do systems have to be dumbed down only because some cry babies cannot just shrug off their loss and look for a better place to play.
If you’re not happy in your job, you go look for a better job right? I’m not saying you’ll quit on the spot, but you would probably look for another gig and quit the current one as soon as certainty arrived.
How is this not applied in wow? Don’t agree with your guild’s rules? Look for another one. Those are your friends? Nice definition of friends you got.
So not many options for such drama.