But if there is no restrictions on loot trading, then the guild/group leader will just say “Give your loot away to X or you get kicket”. It’s essentially the same as master loot, just more inconvenient.
2 Likes
PUGS are so easy these days (did EP heroic in pug personally oneshot all bosses up to za’qul) there really is no real incentive to REALLY be in a guild these days.
It’s nice to be in one and have people to do stuff with, but if the raid leader demands what you said for example I would just leave. (Personally no raid leader ever asked me that since I started playing, and it was quite a while ago. But I understand such a scenario is possible and practiced sometimes I guess).
True. But with ML. You can get kicked without getting anything.
Here you can you keep the item, if you refuse the ultimatum. Former: Completely at loot council’s mercy. Later: Still got some “cards left in your hand”. 
2 Likes
Used to raid pretty hardcore throughout TBC and WotLK, never had any problems with ML in guilds. You kill bosses, get DKP points and spend them on gear you want. Noone ever took anything from me, never saw any unfair loot distribution.
My guilds were mature and serious.
Personal loot is good as well. If you had a vacation, you won’t be behind on DKP, thus not being able to get your drops.
1 Like
neither systems are perfect, but atleast personal loot is less open to abuse, but you rely much more on other peoples good will to get the gear. But with ml you could make sure the person that needs it the most get it
Yeah pug wise people don’t really trade, even if if you go from 385 to a 445 socket, they will keep it to get the residum.
Removal of choice is bad.
If you don’t like ML, be an adult and don’t join groups that enforce it. Run well, it was the best system hands down. It’s just because babies with no impulse control insisted on joining the groups that it got removed.
Anyone that disagrees with me is bad at the game and an immature doodlehead!
This why you go with DKP system guild and avoid the loot council( give to friends) guilds.
DKP point is like salary in real life, you earn the money and then you spend it on the things you want to purchase.
Loot council is another form of slavery where the master aka guild master decides who gets what and who gets nothing.
1 Like
Someone explain to me how the current system is better than a need/greed system based only on what you can use? If you say “cuz people need on stuff they don’t need”, that’s essentially the same thing that’s happening now. Every person that can use it automatically “needs” it.
The current system is a WHOLE LOT MORE STRESSFUL because now EVERY SINGLE TIME someone gets something you need you have to whisper them and ask if they really need it, and if they don’t just hope they’ll cooperate and trade or let those who need it roll. Srsly how the F do you consider this system good?
Um the current system is automated ninja looting.
Simply should have kept ML for guilds aswell, you get egared alot faster when you can give every item to people needing it. Nobody needs it for stats or effect? Congratz the mog roll. Tim always got unlcuky with weapons? he gets the first weapon drop to bring him back up to speed in the new tier, same as Samantha who only ever got 1 good trinket the entire tier.
PL was good for random dungeons and LFR, DS people just needed and this behaviour continued in MoP. Yes Mr. warrior and clothies who needed the agility trinket so it took me as only agil person 7 drops to get it. Hope you all enjoyed the shards or vendor gold.
But pre-made groups and guild should have being allowed to choose. Yes I know I can trust Billy I was puggung HC HFC with his group for 3 months! It was BS that the moment you invite somebody from outside your guild it was PL default in Legion (except for a raid if was 17/18 out of 20 being the same guild). That change killed all my willingness to take random twinks and friends with to raids. I rather wiped 1-2 horus learnign to solo maidens in BRF mythic than to take a friend, 1-shot it and get 0 loot.
“Yes your friend can join but instead of 6 pieces of loot you get 0-2!” - Bliz
“Sorry friend but I’m farming mog… So according to Bliz I have to say screw you” - Me
But the need and greed system was better when they started locking trinkets to certain specs etc. so just because it was ring you couldn’t only roll need on a spirit ring as a healer or caster class. No more on warriors or hunters who had 0 use of said stats.
are you sure, i really did not see much complaining about masterloot on the forums. Most complaints about the old system tended to be about ninjalooting items in groups without master loot. I think it mostly got changed because at some point people just started needing everything. ML being gone however mostly feels like blizz its idea
1 Like
I recall tons of complaining about it. It really picked up flavour of the month quality at a stage where it became responsible for everything from paper cuts to global warming.
ah maybe im forgetful about it then
This never happens in good guilds, guilds that do this tend to fall apart quickly.
This also never happens in good guilds, if you’re a trial and this does happen without a proper explanation then that should be an immediate red flag and you should think about finding some other guild.
I don’t know why this myth still exists but most trials get geared fairly quickly.
It also depends when the trial in question joins the guild.
For example if a guild is progressing a boss and extending the lockout to continue progress, said trial probably won’t raid, therefore not get any loot, unless one of the main raiders can’t make it one night.
But if a trial joins when the raid is already on farm or if the guild is not extending a lockout to progress, the trials are brought in for the officers to see how they perform and most of the time in runs like those trials get a lot of loot because main raiders tend to be better geared at that point.
So please stop spreading misinformation and these stories about how someone ninja-d an item 10 years ago as your proof how ML is a bad system.
There’s a reason why almost every good guild used it, because it was better.
I have no problem with Personal Loot, as long as it’s not forced on us.
2 Likes
Ok. Maybe I just have really bad luck with guilds then. But I experienced this enough back in legion,wod and cata(missed MoP due to rl stuff).
I won’t claim that EVERY guild did that. But I have enough situations in memory to make these conclusions. Of course if the above stated situations happened like once maybe twice in my entire “raiding career” then sure. I wouln’t bring these examples up cause there are bad apples everywhere.
I am happy to hear that you had a lot more luck back with ML and guild choices and thus you may find it hard to believe me. But not everyone shared your “good experiences with good guilds”.
Edit: Not once did I claim that ML is a bad system. I wrote in my previous both pros and cons for each system(in my view), without praising or criticizing any of them in particular. Perhaps its worth reading the whole reply instead of replying to a fragment of it?
Yay, thread “entitled ones vs normal people”!
Saying “ML was bad cause ninjas” is like saying “having functional hands is bad cause you can kill someone with them”.
ML was tool, optional tool in Legion and it was perfect - start of the progress - ML, farm - PL. Pugs couldn’t ninja cause you needed raid with at least 80% guildmates.
Personal Loot is cool. Forced Personal Loot is not.
/thread /period /10chars
1 Like
No you claimed that ALL trials don’t get loot for the duration of their trial time, which is simply not true.
I guess you did then.
But I can’t imagine that these guilds that you were part of lived that long if these things happened so regularly that you have so much of them in your memory.
Oh I definitely had my fair share ML or Loot Council abuse, but it was identified fast and actions have been taken accordingly after that, like it should.
If you notice/noticed something like this happening you should’ve brought it up in your guild/team like it was with us.
Now ofc. that’s not possible since ML is not in the game anymore.
I did read the whole reply, I ignored the PL section because I don’t care about Personal Loot and I agree with the 2nd con that you wrote for Master Loot.
But the other 2 things seemed more of the usual GD propaganda to make Master Loot seem like a bad system.
Walking away empty handed from a raid/dungeon because RNG was bad for you is a bad experience over all. Personal loot allows everyone to get something without loot griefing and takes away loot arguments from what can already be a stressful environment.
1 Like
huh? i had 0 loot from personal loot system many times so whats this bs?