Blue post confirms that Alliance players were wrong about same-faction BGs 💯

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
62

Blizzard post is stupid af, what are you talking about

63

Openworld was never an issue for alliance players, who cares. I say this because I play horde overpopulated server. Bg queues stay the same, the only thing I mentioned that amount of horde premades increased. What benefits to alliance are you talking about I cannot see

64

You may not like it, that doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

1 Like
65

Who’s talking about like or dislike. I’m talking facts

66

If we are to believe the stats in the blue post the average Alliance player dies 50% more often than the average Horde player to wPvP and also scores 50% more kills considering the death ratio is supposedly 50/50 while the faction balance on PvP servers (the place where wPvP actually happens) is 40/60. So according to Blizzard the average Alliance player does way more wPvP then the average Horde player. Kind of strange for the supposed PvE faction.

67

and how do you know the metrics haven’t been pre-adjusted to account for popluation imbalance? your conclusion may be incorrect because it’s based on incomplete information.

68

Because they don’t say they have been. And even if we say they were to achieve the same amount of deaths per player on Horde than on Alliance you’d need Alliance players to kill Horde players way more often.

69

They also didn’t say what they were prior to the change, that doesn’t mean anything. The metrics could have been curated and it’s actually quite likely, you’re misinterpreting them.

70

There is no interpretation of the 50/50 wPvP death statistic that doesn’t say that the average Alliance player scores way more wPvP kills than the average Horde player or dies way more often or both. If you think there is please provide it. Seems way more likely that their use of “close” and “very close” is rather liberal than their data being reliable.

2 Likes
71

Because you still haven’t grasped the possibility that 50/50 might have been pre-adjusted for population imbalance and it actually is 50/50 AFTER statistics have been adjusted to account for populatin differences.

72

“Adjusting for population imbalance” means you bring it to deaths per player. If Horde players are dying as often as Alliance players it would mean that the average Alliance player scores twice as many kills in wPvP as the average Horde player.

73

No, because the number of players in the open world (leveling, questing etc.) doesn’t have to be proportional to the overall population numbers. i.e. the fact that there are 33% more horde players submitting raid logs doesn’t mean that there are 33% more horde players in the open world. There are just too many unknown variables to derive any valuable insight so the best you can do is trust blizzard that 50/50 actually has been curated and means exactly what it means, i.e. that world pvp is now fairer that it used to be prior to the introduction of HvH

74

Why would you assume the proportions of people submitting raid logs are different on Horde and on Alliance though? And since Horde are supposedly the PvP faction wouldn’t that just make things look even worse? All we can conclude is that either Alliance kill Horde at a much higher rate than the opposite (from 50% to 100% more) or that Blizzard aren’t being exactly honest.

1 Like
75

because it’s a far fetched conclusion, there may be more raid-loggers on horde or 10 others reasons that influence these numbers. Blizzard never shared these metrics so we’re mostly guessing.

Can you explain where did you get 50% and 100% more kills numbers from? Why are you assuming there are 2x as many horde players?

77

I’m assuming that the population on PvP servers is 40:60 (so that the proportion of people submitting raid logs is roughly the same on both factions - why wouldn’t it be?). If we say the numbers are population adjusted that means that the average player died the same number if times on either faction. If the average amount of deaths per player is 1 then the average Alliance had to have killed 1.5 (60/40) Horde players and the average Horde player had to Have killed 0.666… (40/60) Alliance players. So the average Alliance player had to have killed 2.25 (1.5/0.666…) as many players as the average Horde player. So yea it’s not 100% more it’s actually 125% more.

78

Dear Blizzard,

Thanks a lot for the feedback, but I cant believe that you have not solved the problem already. You are telling us the following:

  1. That the game, your game, was unplayable by the horde with 1 hour or more queues and that was not the original design
  2. That the same faction PvP not only solved that, but reduced the ganking on the open world for alliance and did not affect the balance of win rates on “aliance” vs. horde
  3. That you are taking more time to do test, think, implement alternatives…Excuse me, what?

Sorry but sometimes you forget that this is a PAID service, so may be what you could do while you implement the solution for a problem that you officially confesed that your game has, is RETURN ALL SUBSCRIPTION FEES until its solved.

Im sure that this way we all be more patient and I’m sure you will be more dilligent.

Thanks a lot, and GOOD DAY

79

Or they could return all the subscription fees for implementing changes to the game after release which are not in line with anything to the intended design of tbc.

#some changes prior to release does not give them a free pass to substantially change the game one month after release it’s not what we signed up for.

80

Your math is correct but assumptions likely not.

Your math works if we assume that 40:60 split AND long bg queues, so the normal circumstances.
Remember that they released metrics for the period when HvH was released, so that’s why the numbers of horde players in open world were probably substantially lower than usual because everyone was spamming BGs. People were looking for premades and so on. so it’s not implausible that during that time the numbers of alliance and horde players in the open world were similar, which is why they probably shared these metrics. This is also why I said there are too many unknowns and why this is a far fetched conclusion, because if we change the assumption a bit and say that the change balanced the number of players in the open world then it changes everything.

Or they could return all the subscription fees for implementing changes to the game after release which are not in line with anything to the intended design of tbc.

#some changes prior to release does not give them a free pass to substantially change the game one month after release it’s not what we signed up for.

I’m very sorry to hear that. I understand your frustration and I’m sorry you’re upset, I wish there were something I could do to help. Try to put yourself in horde shoes, everyone wants to play the game, and currently they can’t. It’s like blizzard said, a lot of people just go afk and bail after 20 minutes. It’s just too long and people don’t want to faction change either.

81

Your assumtions are much more wild than mine though. All I’m assuming is that total population numbers roughly line up with numbers cought on logs. You’re assuming that during the test period the average Alliance player was 50% more likely to be in the open world than the average Horde player. This is a much more far fetched assumtion especially since most players don’t even participate in BGs. You’re making assumptions (open world numbers) on top of assumtions (statistics are population adjusted) and declaring them as fact.

82

at this point both you and I are speculating so it’s hard to claim anything with certainty, but let me explain why I believe you’re wrong. All of this is speculation but so is your claim and at this point we can’t do much more without data from Blizzard.

Firstly, there are more PVPers on horde than on alliance.
Secondly, there were as many as 250 active bgs at one time in my battlegroup, more than 8 times more than now. This is anecdotal and time-dependant so let’s say conservatively that there could be 3-5 * 2 (because most of these additional bgs were horde vs horde so you need to multiply that by 2) times less horde players in the open world during the test.

*edit - by players I meant BG participants, not ALL players, so it’s still unclear how that affected the overall population but my point is that it was significant.

Now you see how much of a difference this could make? For the alliance there was no change because they always had <1min queues.