Unless both are outdone by world quest trinkets - for reference unstable arcanocrystal.
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Aaaah Oki I see 
Yeah in some cases this does happen haha
Im the one who will gonna play the casual way (not gonna give a …), i already picked the venthyr, but i also think these “dungeon” perks not gonna end in a good way.
But if this not gonna affect m+, then no problem.
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it most likely will affect M+ tbh. cant imagine they’d put this into dead content really… no one does M+0s as soon as M+ becomes avaliable.
i honestly think it’ll be interesting and quite fun in all honesty.
Dont get me wrong… this will have Dramatic effect on the PuG World… human nature is gonna get right in the way of the concept.
but it’ll be interesting atleast.
I think until the next raid content (in 9.1), many will do m0 content, so it will be popular for a few months.
thats oddly specific based on class and spec though, because for me as a warlock there are not any dungeons that are specifically good for tirnkets, the trinkets you want are from raids.
generally every dungeon will be important for someone so it will never just be a matter of people only running 1 or 2 dungeons for specific gear. only thing i can think of there is geti’ikku and the fist weapon from underrot, but thats only for melee.
I’m going Venthyr cause… Vampires
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problems start when a Mythic raider talks about the negative Impacts it can have in the cutting edge gameplay.
the problem is alot of listeners miss when they litterally say “everyone else will be fine”. and instead run to the forums with “THIS IS BAD SOO BAD I CANT PLAY THIS”
it is true… this system could potientally make players on the cutting edge of Contents lives Difficult… however your Average PuG group… or your Heroic guild likely wont take that much Impact overall from these things realistically. i mean they could… but theres also a thousand other things that could cause a heroic guild to take impact.
you mean the people that outright refuse to bring people with 2k Rio to a +10 because they are a “bad” class, you really think they wont care about it?
the fact of the matter is that they are refusing the ability for you to make a choice, you are forced to make a singular choice and then all choice there on is removed
i can only really speak for myself and i can tell you that this system will remove fun from the expansion completely, i see covenants as basically a more powerful talent system, which essentially how the spells are designed. so i like the ability to swap between talents and run weird builds that might work in certain situations, like running a full AoE build for aff this and last patch on live to mess around in dungeons with friends,
with covenants im being told im not longer allowed to do this, they are refusing me the abilitiy to change things around and have fun. thats my major issue with it, why should i not be allowed to make a choice that affects my character and allows me to have fun in a way that i want to, why are they telling me no.
they’re gonna care about it, but if they’re not locking you out for convenants they’ll lock u out for something else… i’ve seen M+ groups Demand AOTC to join for god sake lmfao
because on the same Logic choosing ur class did the exact same thing… its not always a Negative thing.
thje problem here is simple:
PuG World is Toxic hell hold and Likely should be discouraged to begin with.
Meaningful choices are all that bad… we made plenty of them throughout our gameplay…
im not saying the system is Perfect… nor am i saying its the best idea they could have come up with, im just Saying… i dont think for the Average Player and his 4 buddies they’re going to hit a Wall that legit stops them playing the game unless one of em switch.
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this is completely different though, because picking a class isnt as a difinitive choice as picking a covenant is, with covenants you have 1 option, you have the ability you are given,
when you pick a class you have specs, you have the abilitiy to swap between all 3 meaning you still have choice and options, with covenants they are removing options completely by forcing you into ONE choice. its not the same at all.
but why should i be forced into a siuation that i feel bad playing a piece of content, if i have a ST focused build through necrolords because it looks like it will be overall the best, then i will feel bad in AoE situations because i no longer have the choice to be AoE specced properly. being forced into these decisions is causing gameplay to feel bad, which is bad game design.
your 1 choice gives u 3 options in Soulbinds.
your 1 class choice gives you 3 talent trees as Talents.
they’re are quite similar… if anything your convenant is Alot less impactful then your Class choice.
unless we’re talking about the dumb 1 week lock, then yeah i agree with you… it really needs to go.
Yes 1 choice of convenant with 3 Optional Soulbinds.
Well for the last 4 years… classes have felt exactly like this… so i dunno maybe im just used to it by now.
Every class is now built to be bad at something.
im a Shadow priest… who mainly plays M+, im used to feeling like the physical Game design is fighting me in the content i play… Yet theres lots of people on the forums saying Void Forms good game design
yes but considering how them soulbinds work i dont really have 3 choices, i need to have one soulbind for destro, one for aff and one for demo.
the soulbinds and conduits should work the same as how the essences do, you swap spec and can choose what you want, instead when you swap specs you will still have the conduits from your previous spec still in place, so you need to use a clean one, and then when you move to your third spec you have 2 soulbinds that are filled in and you need to use a clean one, so all 3 are taken, instead of being able to use a ST, AoE and utility build for each spec, which would be better.
but i made the choice to play warlocks, they have ST, cleave and AoE spec generally, so i made the choice so i can swap around and play differently depending on situation, thats a choice that is somewhat being removed, by making it feel bad to play other specs and play different content,
this is something no one has asked for, this is blizzard creating their own problem and then refusing to solve it, they said in an interview with sloot when alpha first launched that if they couldnt work this out they would change, i am yet to see a single thing that makes this “work” its still terrible, and they are too stubborn to admit they got it wrong, they will wait untill alpha for 10.0 and then admit mistakes,
Yeah the Lockout is horrific, i really hope its something they look at reverting realistically it’d be a good compromisation with the playerbase to really let this one happen.
as i stated priorly, i do see the negatives to the system… im very aware of them.
Does it Mean that this isnt a Cool Concept?.. not really, Even Alot of Nay sayers like preach and more have stated… they’d Love to see blizzard Prove them wrong and actually make the system work perfectly fine.
they said if they cant balance it they will… considering number tunings barely began you atleast have to give them time to try balance it first before u expect them to hold their word.
while i agree the games lived 16 years without needing this.
I’d also point ouit… blizzard didnt create their Own problem… blizzard is trying to Fix a problem which has Existed for a LONG time in WoW.
the game Lacks any RPG Elements… its Lost the RPG in its Genre, they’re trying t ofix that… they Didnt Create a problem… they’re fixing a Problem no one asked to be fixed… there is a Slight difference here realistically.
problem isnt its bad game Design… the problem isnt its a terrible Idea.
the Problem is, theres Serious Concern to how balanced this realistically will be… no ones hating the idea… we’re concerned with the execution.
this system has existed within the ether since blizzcon last year when they announced it, since then there has been issues people have noticed, me and some friends instantly saw the problem of potentially being locked out of changing when they balance things, or not being given the option to play different ones depending on spec, (particularly bad for off roles).
in the last 9 months+ since blizzcon there has been many conversations across multiple forums and reddit and where ever else, i am yet to see a single argument for this other than “but muh RPG” which is just faulty logic, because its having such a detremental affect on others, and within lore and RPG it doesnt make a lot of sense regardless. so yeah it would be nice to be proven wrong, but nothing has been found in the past 9 months so i have absolutely no confidence in them figuring it out in the next 2 or so
we have essentially had the free choice to change talents and other such things freely and play the way we want to for a very long time, they added covenants and made them difficult to swap therefore creating the entire problem themselves.
the covenants would be perfect if they didnt lock player power behind it, the soulbinds and such are not that bad, literally all they need to do is uncouple it and allow us to change the ability like a talent and basically everything is fixed.
Yes but when they announced it… they were creating the game, and 3/4s of the abilities werent even created to begin with to be shown… a large part of peoples concern was the LACK Of anything created at the time of showing us this.
i did precisely say its fixing a problem we never asked to be fixed. It is a problem… and alot of people like it conceptually, even alot of the people demanding its removal the loudest arent shouting it cause they think the ideas bad… they beleive the gameplay that comes from it will be bad… because of balancing.
The idea is Solid. we all have this CD which does aliottle more damage in different situations we can all be Slightly different and have some element of Return for our choices made.
and if it was a Small Advantage No one would care. but the problem is its deeper then that
blizzard have set themselves up to deal with 36 speccs… which now has to work with all 4 soulbinds…
the thing is… these things have only been tested… and while we proclaim 0 changes have happened… realistically they have.
2 Convenant abilities are confirmed to be Reworked, Night fae for Priest and Paladin.
All Soulbinds took a Major change over Prior their insertion to alpha.
and (i think) we saw paladins Venthyr ability to get buffed.
So they are actively working on it… and realistically these things werent even in the game for alpha… it was closing near the end of alpha when players could actually test All the convenant abilities.
so it wasnt 9 months of testing and no results… its been a Month odd of testing… with a couple of results.
yes and its because of what u just listed the game Lost Meaningful choice… which is a Core part of a RPG and Defintly exists throughout Alot of them realistically. again… it was a problem… just not one the playerbase was asking to be fixed.
Maybe for you but if u look at alot of the ways people are talking to ion on this its not a overall opinon.
People are worried about 2 things.
- THe Convenants will be so unbalanced Players feel FORCED to pick a Specific one and not able to use their favorite one
- They’ll Rebalance the Convenants continously which will push top tier players All over the place.
those 2 problems are the ones being Shouted the loudest and IMHO are the core problems.
they got away with itr in legion when they said “We wont rebalance speccs to ensure player effort is not wasted” then they rebalanced the entire rogue class. the problem is now for alot of players . We dont trust blizzard to get the balancing right Before launch. and we dont trust blizzard to leave it alone after launch.
also the soulbinds are actually proven to be ALOT worse then the abilities… in ALOT of cases ur talking about 3 minute CDs for abit of damage… they’re Defintly not worth enough of your classes DPS to realistically be made Mandatory.
the problems are the Soulbinds.
Soulbinds have the potiental to be uptoo a 30% DPS Increase for a Class ALONE…and thats AFTER their nerfs. the Soulbinds are actually what ALOT of people are fighting to get unlocked across all convenants because of this
a 3 minute CD is never going to be that negatively impactful.
That argument is so wrong, dunno why people bring this up.
Cutting Edge people will just play 4 chars and have every covenant + legendary. they dont care to switch or farm stuff for hours to gain 1% dps. not being specced bis, not having best legendary, not having best covenant for your class will hurt casuals way more than anybody else.
just because you are skillcapped at normal raids and +3 keys doesnt mean it wont affect you.
preach said it in his youtube video and every top 10 raider on twitch said it too.
also, you are pugging low keys and dont raid at all. you should be worried more than anybody else. but you will learn soon enough how good this system is 
loving the fact its very thoughtful of them in term of boosters
you and the boys have all different covenants so a goldbag can be anything it want
So, they fixed a problem with another problem? Seems not so good to me.
“Oh sorry, we already have a guy with that covenant”