Bring the raid loot system to M+ to prevent ninja looting

Community General Discussion
101

OK. Ok… What are we talking about here?

Fairness because people dont trade loot or whatever or actual % quantity of loot drops?

If its the latter, WHO CARES. Run the dungeon again. There is no lock-out.

Lets just be clear with something here:

The fact that M+ is spamable content IS a problem for all WoW. Whatever you play, at whatever level. And it IS a problem if people are fully geared on week 1, across all levels.

So you NEED to find a way to slow down gear acquisition somehow. So from % drop perspective you have the following choices:

  • PL as we have now: Adjust loot tables and % drops such that on average it takes (I make it up) 50 runs to get that item.
  • GL as you suggest: Where % chance of dropping an item would be different and adjusted in such a way as to ALSO take ~ 50 runs. Therefore, you WILL have runs where NOBODY gets loot. 0 items.
  • Some sort of Valor Point system where you have to grind the dungeon 50 times to buy the item.

So you cant escape the obvious: Do the Fing dungeon 50 times. The difference is between GL and PL is that in GL, WHEN that item drops, someone can ninja need it while in PL he cant.

Get it now WHY its a dumb idea to put GL in M+?

And credit given when credit is due: Blizz knows that if grinding dungeons was all there is, then it would be annoying as hell. So they put in place the crest system so you always have something to gain from any M+ run.

With CAPS to prevent people from reaching 483 on week 1. Which I particularly don’t like… I understand why they do it, but I just dont have any better ideas on how to replace it.

Back to the original question. What are we talking about? Gear acquisition or “fairness”. Because as I explained above, you STILL have to grind M+. You cant escape that reality. Its the price you pay for spamable content. Otherwise, it would need a weekly lockout like raids.

If its fairness in the philosophical sense you want? Then GL is WAY less fair. Just because there are idiots and they will abuse it. Something they currently cant do with PL.

How more clear you want people to be bro? NO GL IN M+. UNANIMOUS consent. Its rare to see it in forums, but it sometimes exists.

2 Likes
102

You do realize PL giving you loot is not an independent chance for each player, right? As in, a 25 man LFR group will always get the same number of items whether it’s PL or GL. You’re always rolling against others.
The only difference is in PL it happens in the background and you’re rolling for a generic loot drop instead of an actual item, and if you win the game generates an item matching your loot spec.
Truth is PL is even more competitive since the system will never pass for you even if the boss doesn’t give you upgrades.

103

I’m not saying GL loot table couldn’t be improved, I’m just talking about the manner in which the loot is presented to the group. :slight_smile:

The fact that I’m voting against PL and für GL already proves otherwise and you can’t discount my vote for some silly reason like “you havan’t done an m+ this season”.

Loot was better before PL was introduced, that0s a simple fact. I’ve been playing this game since the end of BC. Ppl were nicer back when group loot was still a thing, because everybody understood that the epics / rares that dropped had been a team effort and everyone in the group has a right to them. I won’t change my opinion, because it’s based on years of experience.

You got your gear quicker and the loot was distributed more fairly. I don’t care about “spamable content”, back then nhc & hc dungeons were the equivalent to m+ nowadays and they were spamable too and had a dungeon browser on top of is, so you didn’t need to waste your time looking for members manually. Oh, and btw. we had valor with a vendor + GL gear drops back then, so double win.

Why? Ppl would just play more different characters to gear in that case, that’s how most ppl did it bakc before loot got so sparse; you always had the same ppl in the group with different alts. Nowadays you are forced to play one character if you really want to get the top gear because you’re getting loot so rarely. It’s boring.

Thank you! That’s what I’ve been trying to explain the others since yesterday. :slight_smile:

104

This completely depend on the amount of items a boss or dungeon drops. But still with personal loot you get more usefull items than with group loot since personal loot takes the group composition into account.

When you hand out 5 random items from the total loot table of the boss, there is always the chance an item is not usable because you miss the spec who can use the item. When you first choose which 5 players are getting an item and then choose an item from their personal loot table you always reward 5 useable items.

PL wins over GL forever.

105

My Friend > Randoms just that simple, i don’t know you.

106

I never said anything against that. Would still be better if the loot table was handled like with PL and the loot distribution like it’s with GL.

107

Then GL and PL are exactly the same. You press Need and trade if you want. Or you press nothing and trade if you want.

108

OK. Semantics. I wont discount your vote. 99% against GL and 1% for GL. The results are still the same.

Absolutely not. You sir, have a short memory because I remember the term “ninja looting” being born in Everquest. :smiley:

Here is a history lesson my boy:

If you did in fact play since the end of TBC, then you remember the fundamental change that occured in WotlK: Pugging content became a thing. And that is when all the loot dramas started to show up.

Up untill WotlK if you wanted to do… say scholomance… you needed to basically go with guildies or friends. Or not go at all. The tools to find PuG groups were so rudimentary that it was hard to do so. And people demanded change. And thats exactly what they got in WotlK.

As years passed, pugging became the norm. And in WoD the loot dramas literally exploded. Blizzard put PL in place everywhere because it was just a whole mess.

And this is just Raid im talking about. M+ was not a “thing” yet.

And that is why you are fundamentally wrong by comparing what was before with what we have now. WoW never had spammable content. Even dungeons had daily lockouts back then. Pure blind nostalgia right there.

In fact, I remember very well how 2 childhood friends literealy stoped speaking to themselves over some Purple Item that dropped in Strathhome. Some sword with like 0.01% drop or some ridiculous thing like that. Why? Because of GL. The epixz disease got over one and he ninja looted it.

Bro. You cant be serious. Im sorry but no.

Heroic dungeons back then gave BLUE item gear. From S1.

The only moment people did them was first 2 weeks of the EXPANSION. Nobody ever steeped foot in them ever again. Except once 10 min a day (daily lockout) to farm valor.

Yes we did. And guess what how you acquired that valor? By doing stupid daily quests. Thats how. Back then there was only Raid (with weekly lockout), and that’s about it. Nothing else. And Valor points were made to address the issue of loot RNG in RAIDS, with weekly lockouts. Not M+.

It was a way to appease the casual masses. If you remembered WotlK it was a MASSIVE discussion. With people being very adamant on their position.

Why? Because you and your 20 alts don’t represent most people. People play the game for different reasons.

And a system that affects us ALL has to be a system that is a compromise between everyone.

Simple as that. Like it or not.

People have been getting it. What you dont get is that you can just run the dungeon again. No biggie.

109

Nope. You could circumvent the hc lockout by doing it with the roup finder. :smiley: AND currency always dropped, so you could spam dungeons all day long to get your vendor gear.

If that happend, it wasn’t GL but master looter, only ninja looting was possible with master looter and, well, you could easily report those ppl. :man_shrugging: I never had any trouble with them, though I guess that’s because I mostly led those PUGs myself and was the LM. xD

Yeah, so what? that blue gear was better than m+10 nowadays, you want raiding in that blue gear. xD Doesn’t matter if it was blue or epic, and the later dungeosn dropped epics. :slight_smile:

Nah, I spammed dungeons for it, just like M+ nowadays.

Err, yes. Time and time - to cite the goblins there - is money, my friend.

110

And WHEN was this introduced? WotlK maybe? :smiley:

Exactly when all the drama started? :smiley:

Yeah, that drama we desperately want to avoid…

Back then blizzard restricted “need” rolls in no way. I as a shaman could need for some cloth shoes because I felt like it. I could roll for a DPS trinket for off spec if I wanted.

So YES. It was 100% GL. If PL was in place, then the right person would have gotten it, period.

REALLY? Heroic dungeons STILL EXIST buddy. Go there. Do them.

And THEN, when you are fully geared in blue stuff from heroic go and do a raid.

M+ as a system was placed ON TOP of the existing heroic stuff. Blizz did not delete it, heroic is still in the game, with LFR automatic finder as well.

Then that was your endgame, and you did it purely for fun. Like I do keys > 20, just for fun as they don’t reward anything. Fair enough.

But all the systems you mention? The Valor system was put in place so that YOU could, in time, get geared to raid level quality (more or less) if you spammed enough dumb daily content that was not “raid”.

So? Play at your pace. Who sais you need to be top dog at day 1? What do you think this is? RTWF simulator?

You have a 100% guaranteed chance to be fully geared in ~2 month from now by literally doing 2 dungeons a week. And you would still have ~2 months to go till the end of the season.

Play as you wish. Nothing wrong with that.

111

If me asking people to type /roll 100 is too much effort for a bit of loot they didnt want it in the first place, stop making such ridiculous claims…

112

Nope. There’s a huge gear gap between hc dungeons and raid nowadays that wasn’t there before Mythic dungeons. :slight_smile: Back in WotLK it was possible to out dps a raider with hc gear is your skill was better, nowadays that’s no longer possible due to ilvl.

Um, I’m doing that? No idea why you’re suddenly thinking I’m compainign about that. I just want to be able to actively roll on loot, because PL is boring and unfair, since the system rolls need on items for me which I don’t even want and after that my luck is gone for the next item that I actually would have wanted. :frowning: I always dread getting loot in a M+, because I know now I won’t get anything else anymore for the next at least four dungeons.

Nah, it’s the other way around, ppl don’t even ask /type roll because it’s too much work to then count rolls and trade the item. With GL that’s done by the system and much easier!

113

With group loot everyone presses Need and you still need to trade afterwards. With personal loot we all the time trade too.

114

In theory, fact is that barely anyone trades with PL. With GL it’s easier, espacially with ajusted loot tables and excluding ppl from rolling on armor types they can’t wear like it’s already the case.

115

Its done by the system with PL as well, you just dont see it. Its not easier because you have to actually press the need button, and lets face it “Need” is the only button thats ever going to be pressed because people dont greed items.

116

Sure. Full ICC25 gear doing lower dps gear than heroic blues from S1 (Nax) dungeons?

Unlikely.

All your justification to get more free gear is “time is money”. Play at your pace, gear up at your pace. But a sistem catered to you is egocentrical.

Im bored now. Have it your way.

117

Nope, it offers me no option to pass on an item! I often used greed, and I also press the transmog button… and am actually missing the disenchant button we once had. :,D

118

Of course not, I’m talking about the same “season”… and still it was possible to raid the Crusader thingy with Naxx gear and just skip Ulduar while doing competitive dps, that’s not possible anymore either.

Hello? I’m talking about getting less stuff all the time? I want to give stuff away more easily or not be forced to “roll” need on stuff i don’t want by that silly PL system!

119

agree with that post. If in m+ will be same loot system as in raid, i can click need at any item, not only on my personal loot, and then trade it. Would be perfect.

120

How much do you play dungeons? :thinking: We trade all the time.

GL is not trading items and we aren’t even able to get items from a different armor type in dungeons with PL anyway.

You aren’t fixing anything.