Bring the raid loot system to M+ to prevent ninja looting

There is no ninja looting without Master Looter. Its not possible.

Yes, I do. The pure presence of other ppl in your grp already robs you of possible lootchances because they limit what might drop, making the chance to get what you want even smaller.

Gear drops in general actually shouldn’t be a thing. We should only get currency and be able to buy everything on the theoretical loot table from a vendor. That would be fairest.

I don’t care about whiners who don’t get how Group Loot works.

Ok i reread what you wrote earlier. We all do the dungeon, we all have an equal right to the loot. With PL we all roll for loot and 2 out of 5 people win the loot.
How is this unfair?

1 Like

Why do i want to get mail loot dropped in groups without mail users, and having to split the leather loot between 3 people? How is that better than rolling for 5 players and the top 2 players get an item from their personal loot table?

Not to mention people press Need on group loot anyway; so people will get the item in their bags just like with personal loot. And that item is theirs.

The big difference is with personal loot the quality of loot is better and more fair since it takes group composition into account.

And for your effort you get vault options, crests and maybe score. Thats more than enough.

You have no right for any loot that drops to others.

This is not ninja looting.

Additionally, this is a terrible idea.

Since when a group of people (2-3-4) is toxic for helping one of them? Have you ever considered that they actually playing the game as desired? Because the point of a multiplayer, is not going solo into group content everyday, but at some point, join forces with people that have same mentality.

I’ve been on both sides of the story. And to cope with that, I started to think :“If I had 100 euros to give between a friend of mine who needs it to buy something, or a stranger to buy the exact same thing, I bet I would give those 100 to my friend”.

Also, PL gives to chances : Either the one from the group that has nothing to do with playing gets the loot on his own, and well, good for him, or I’m having that item, and have the satisfaction of disenchanting into his face after having to carry him through a dungeon for 30 minutes.

Do you want a fair loot system? Let’s figure a way to put it performance based? Oh wait…70% or more of the players would freak out at the possibility of them not getting any loot for the whole week. And don’t even try to tell me there is no way to evaluate performance, as there are 3rd parties applications that can already do that, and players that don’t want to be carried in any form of content are using them.

Also we came here, and we are talking about m+. A form of content that can be literally spammed 24/7 (minus the maintenance), so if you really target one piece, in maximum 2 weeks it can drop. And no, I’m not one that has luck, having drops where I needed 40+ runs to get them. But I’m still not whining, still not considering sharing between friends toxic, because they are playing this game as intended.

1 Like

To be fair; you can’t. You can not measure people not taking their interrupts or stuns. When someone says he is going to stun the next spite which means you can stay in, but the spite is not getting stunned and you die because of that, than how is that going to get measured? How are you measuring expectations? The game is completely groupplay and coordination heavy. It isn’t measurable. When everyone is about to LoS and 1 player isn’t… how do you measure that?

In what way do they limit what might drop? PL is PERSONAL loot.

FIRST you roll IF you get gear or not. THEN you roll in YOUR lot table, which is constant no matter the group size or composition.

If you want to play the system, do dungeons solo or 2 man it. You will have a guaranteed item drop then.

Either way. You were suggesting GL instead. How would GL improve your chances of aquiring loot, and and how would the presence of other people in the group rob you of possible loot chances by limiting what might drop? :slight_smile:

To what end? To farm the dungeon 1000 times for Valor Badges? In the end you farm the dungeon anyways, and you get the item anyways.

Its just an illusion of choice. A “make me feel better” system. Not a more efficient way to acquire gear.

If you think about it, RNG exists to slow down gear acquisition so people are not full max at day 1. You might disagree with the solution blizz chose, but you cant disagree with the problem. A deterministic loot acquisition would have to be as tedious and lengthy as the one we have now.

Ilusion of choice.

The game also has personal responsibility.
You can measure interrupts, based of how much it stood out of cd vs how many casts escaped. It’s analyzing the fights, where you can code way better than any of the humans can think about it.
But there are lots of cases where you don’t even need code to see if someone should take loot or not. And based on more than 1k runs this expansion, I saw that people who can barely play take more loot. It’s an inside joke in my guild already when we are not running full groups, and have someone who should do way more easier content, and we say like at the half of the dungeon: He’s gonna take the loot. And in 80% of the times, we are right.

Yes there is personal responsibility, that is some basic number crap. But that basic number crap is very dependend on how the group is coordinating. Good luck measuring interrupts that do not fit the coordination. Who is getting the + and who is getting the - when 2 people both use an interrupt on the same cast? How does a program even know who was the assigned player?

How does a program know how a pull should have been set up? So many things the program does not know and isn’t measureable.

Nobody takes in that case, as both of them would go on a short timer between them.
Obvious things would be considered as minuses - being the only one who can interrupt something dangerous, and not doing it because you were focused on pulling damage, and so on.
That’s the thing. Nobody takes +. Everybody will start from the maximum, and mistakes will be punished. Dying to avoidable damage (frontals, ground things, etc) should count the most. Afking should count too.
Also coordinating something usually doesn’t really mean PUG. So far, until 23-24, the only thing I saw coordinated in pugs was the last boss in Rise. The rest of them, were pretty much random.

We are even using raid markers and stuff and i am at +18. We are talking about how to set up pulls, where and what to skip. Where to position. Who is using what utility. etc etc etc.

Personal loot is not ninja loot :laughing: personal loot is better, losing rolls is not fun and bad experience

there is people rolling need on things they do not need and then saleing the item so basically ninjaing.

Exactly, so as long as you don’t take another player with your armor class with you, there is no bigger chance for you to get a gear drop of your armor class, instead it is reduced, and there are overly many rings/cloaks/backs/necks in the loot table, because every single player has them in them.
Why do you think is it that about 50% of all drops for each dungeon are such items and are not even needed most of the time, while non “genenic” loot has become absurdly sparse?

With GL, there is a higher chance for other items to drops and everybody who can use them can roll for them, not just one person who got lucky in the background and got that item handed to them by the system.

To make it fair and not have runs be wasted. You know exactly how long it takes to get an item, can estimate if you want to invest that time, not maybe be lucky and get in in the 2nd run, or be unlucky and still not have it after 1 hundret runs. I don’t liek to have my time wasted my RNG.

No it’s not, it’s luck if they get it, they can’t just take everything, which is ninjaing. And with PL it’s exactly the same. Everyone rolls need on everything, you just don’t see the rolls.

No, losing isn’t fun, but at least you got the chance to see the loot that the boss dropped for everyone in the group and you get a chance to roll, PL robs you of that, you can’t even properly see what others are getting or give your own item up to roll for everyone if you don’t need it. It was a step back from a very iconic and well working system.

Yes you can, I frequently put items up for a roll if i or someone im grouped with doesnt need it.

2 Likes

Yeah, but you have to do it from hand, can’t know if ppl are actually rolling for your item or somebody elses or if you really spotted the one rolling the highest, because the chat spams the rolls away. With GL, this was all already there. :,D

For most ppl, this is too much work in a dungeon and they just leave togehter with the loot and you wasted even more of the time on that dungeon.

With GL you also have to trade it afterwards since everyone presses Need.

You keep ignoring that in a dungeon you have the problem you very often do not have every armor type. So you keep getting items nobody can use at all, and people with the same armor type need to split the rewards.

With personal loot you get fair loot distribution since every player has the same chance to get an item. Not depending on the armor type. And afterwards you can still trade if you want.