Buff to Vengenance and nothing to Havoc?

People have been asking for feedback for a long time about Havoc and the lack of damage. Cant say i read pages about how bad Vengeance dps is but that is what you buff next week.

Trying to force us to go tanks or?

Gonna look funny when the tank spec is the new dps spec topping dps amongst demonhunters in many cases…


Dont even call them buffs, u will see. The buffs are not needed, just nerf bDK and you will make 2-3 other tanks viable again.

I actually don’t think DH is even in a bad spot…
Their ST damage is prety nutty and their AOE damage seems okay-ish (still better then BM hunter)…

I don’t know if I just seen really good DH players but in my M+ keys they usually end up around 12-14k overall damage, which is barely below what Arms Warrior does after 5 buffs :joy:

The issue with Havoc’s damage, both ST and Aoe, is that it’s entirely reliant on Sinful Brand. Yes, Havoc is decent in ST, but it requires a braindead, degenerate build which encourages us to ignore one of our CORE abilities, or we risk not being able to extend the SB dot.

In AoE, our abilities hit like wet noodles, and we’re yet again reliant on Sinful Brand doing the lion’s share of our damage. But that happens when we use Meta, a baseline 4 min CD, or 3,5 min with 4pc tier set. Which is yet another issue, btw. Havoc players have been begging for a rework of the 4pc since PTR, and we’ve been ignored as usual.


True. Same with Arms warrior, it’s sad to get ignored…

That sucks gameplay wise but doesn’t rlly warrant a buff, just a rework. And we are so far in the season this will sadly not come (I hope it does though)…

If they buff Havoc’s dmg it has the risk too completely derail both ST and AOE fights.

Yes, I agree. It’s too late for a complete or even partial rework of the spec, but what they can do is change the square root scaling of Eyebeam to what it was, or remove the target cap on The Hunt. Or make Burning Wound have Blade Dance apply the debuff. That would at least incentivize us to use BD, in addition to providing a big AoE boost with Immo Aura. These suggestions would “buff” Havoc without necessarily tuning the numbers.


i am main dh player
gotta say that this is not fun for me i do all the rotation , fix my gear and still i’m far away from monk or warrior or dk !
litteraly everything i touch on my rotation have huge target cap !
Eye beam is a joke ! it’s a Joke ! low dmg and target cap !
what if somebody don’t like to play with fellrush !
this is not fair Havoc needs to get buff i can talk about it’s everything and claiming lack of damage !
please do something about it , Target cap and nerfing perfomances are not something cool , players don’t like that . it’s not challenging , it’s not fun ! it’s ugly

Yeah, it is not the most fun to play Havoc right now. I finally managed to get 3K rating (2998 as Havoc) got tired and went tank the last 2 points. Havoc is in such a bad state so it just feels like you are there in the group providing the 5% buff and pray they don’t complain too much on my bad dps compared to a lock or yeah pretty much any class. What worked for me was to go 3 potency slots and change to Venthyr Blindfury/Glaive tempest build and CA.

It does not feel so punishing having to constantly keep sinful brand up or loose all dps. Sure the single target damage gets lower but trash is the biggest part of a dungeon still so having way more fun. My dps are more even on each pack pulled in a dungeon and it just feels better to play like this. I go 113x231 talents and Theotar except when I get crit tea. Then I change to Nadja, but still using 3 potency conduits. (Immolation Aura, Dancing with Faith and Relentless Onslaught)

At least it is more fun to play this way being able to use Blade dance and Glaive Tempest in the rotation and try to ignore the lack of damage ha-ha. I still feel hopeful for Dragonflight as Havoc since it feels like we are at the absolute bottom right now and having a hard time to believe it can get worse. :slight_smile:

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Monk? Fair, they OP.

DK? Meh, they are hit or miss. Sometimes they are amazingly strong, sometimes super weak.
All depends on Breath uptime I suppose.

Warrior? You should be able to keep up with them in descent key range. I parse 90-96% and very often a DH is barely below me in damage.
Ofcourse not in +10 to +15 range because warrior burst is prety high. You need mobs to outlive the burst and then you can catch up :smile:

The problem with Havoc DH is you NEED to keep your sinfull brand (venthyr) up. If it drops you do zero damage. It basicly does 50-60% of your damage.

Convenant abilities dictate this xpack sadly…
(Spear of bastion does 30% off warrior dmg aswell…)

Sinful brand is more like 28~35% of your total damage. If you were let it fall off for 1 refresh and you’d fight for what, 2 minutes, you’d lose about 25% of that. This would come down to losing about 21~27% total damage on SB instead. but the point stands yes as losing ~10% damage is still 1.5k ST, and easily 4~5k in AoE. Though AoE is a whole different story, because not refresh in AoE means you can’t apply it again for another 3m+.

You’re punished really badly by RNG.

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Thats true, but same applies for example BoS for Frost DK. And many other class-skill examples.

It’s not a problem in damage, it’s more a problem off how you obtain this damage…

I agree. A mid expansion rework, is likely a high expectation, espically less then 6 months off a expansion launch. However whats the likelyhood DH will get a rework?

They seem so fixed on DH must be braindead gameplay wise for some reason, even though theyve made evoker quite difficult and complex with great depth so it cant be “this is their view on how classes should be”

Metamorphsis is so boring compared to what it could be, just go back to old Demo warlock to see a great implementation of how a meta could look.

Its sad because DH is a huge fantasy play with huge amounts of lore investment but its implementation was done in some of the most boring way possible.

There are already Demon Hunter attacks in the game which could be used to enhance this.

I.e back in tbc black temple when you see illidan fly up throw both glaives out and shoots down on the targets with fel.

I hope in DF we see some meaningful choices, some good changes and some depth added to the base class so it doesnt feel like the moment we pick a trait the entire class feels braindead.

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