Hey I get that its not all about the visuals and I’m not kink shaming but RPing as a GIMP is really not my thing!
It’s up to you, I honestly can’t keep my temper in check, so prefer not to risk getting a ban.
You, i like you, do you by any chanse play alliance and are looking for a guild XD ?
It was obvious it will be like this since Covenants were announced. The best part is that these the best for PvP are either “bad or mediocre” on the list xD
What a great design.
Also it’s not the problem only for high end players who want to be optimal in every content because the difference is around 10-20% damage between them. It will be a handicap even for random casual heroic raiding guild.
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Its not about roleplaying as a player, but they just shouldn’t include RPG it the game’s genre, when all that people are doing is simming their chars and change everything perfectly to be 100% meta for every single step they take. Not only is this type of “gameplay” awfully boring, but also it makes all choices you do with your char useless. It just doesn’t have any meaning what you choose and makes the entire feature obsolete if they’d allow constant changing with no cooldown whatsoever. What would be the point storylines even exist then? Essentially they could erase all visuals and make it a mathematical text based game adventure, because that’s exactly what wow would be without any cooldowns or efforts to change things.
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RP : Role Playing : Noun
-Playing a role.
-Taking part in role playing game.
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I talked about RPG, not RP. [quote=“Shadowdeeps-blackhand, post:306, topic:185867, full:true”]
Its not about roleplaying as a player, but they just shouldn’t include RPG it the game’s genre, when all that people are doing is simming their chars and change everything perfectly to be 100% meta for every single step they take. Not only is this type of “gameplay” awfully boring, but also it makes all choices you do with your char useless. It just doesn’t have any meaning what you choose and makes the entire feature obsolete if they’d allow constant changing with no cooldown whatsoever. What would be the point storylines even exist then? Essentially they could erase all visuals and make it a mathematical text based game adventure, because that’s exactly what wow would be without any cooldowns or efforts to change things.
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Just do not switch if you do not want to.
I won’t, i never gave in to the meta and still i completed content up to +15s and heroic raids. Some people just don’t seem to understand it’s unecessary for a let’s say +5. Yet, it’s important Blizzard does not give in to this, as their entire systems are going to end up as useless borrowed power tools once again that don’t matter.
Thats not neccarealy true. You can minmax and have RP, ok you can pick your talents however you want and you can switch them for non trivial content (progresion for example). I miself play like this i would often experiment with build in outdoor content or on farm, however i do like to play optimal when it matters.
I fint it quite enjoyable honetly, if i am locked to one build/spec i find that boring.
Which is easentially time gathing and the most bring and lazy type of “content”.
Storylines and cosmetics are fun, but are a finite resource, once you do them once you are done. I have been vocal about blizzard adding in branching dialogue or even hybrid covenants (fallen kyrian, drust etc) but thats is not what we are getting, covenants essesntially bring very little aestethic and RP, in reality its only player power with mogs. Now the real replayable content requires math, this is what we are complaing about really its not teh RP elements its that for those of us that do enjoy the math part of the game that we lose the RP part.
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Hey to be fair sims on my full masterful 3 mage still say I need haste more than mastery even though I get a 118% increased benefit from it. And there are still gameplay related things which are a choice. My guardian druid is full versatile. Do I care I don’t spam twilight devs? - no because that isn’t what I should be doing to begin with. Having over 40% versatility on a guardian druid basically means I don’t even need to use ironbark most of the time and my healer can either chill or go in and do damage so its a fair trade. The real problem with simming is that when you get a piece of loot you often have no clue if its an upgrade or not -> you have to sim it or reclear the encounter preferably with the same people so you can have a somewhat accurate idea if your higher ilvl brand new piece of loot is actually better than what you have.
As for the covenant swapping - its one of the player provided solutions and currently seemingly the most favored one as it requires the least amount of effort on Blizzard’s part. Frankly the idea of the rip cord is to untie player power from said storylines, cosmetics and so on. Being locked in to those is perfectly fine as long as it doesn’t make your gameplay worse by either not adding enough to your toolkit or adding something that is only good in one part of the content you take part in.
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But the reason why people play 100% meta is because they play this game for such a long time and they got better. They know better the value of stats. They share knowledge faster and I don’t see anything wrong about it.
Also keep in mind that current talents were introduced in order to swap them and adapt to the situation not to have talents that are never used like during classic -> cata time. So Blizzard gave us tools and made us play like this long time ago.
Also Blizzard removed a lot of RP aspect from professions making them just rng source of gear.
If Blizzard wants more RPG they just have to bring it to the game and this forced limitation wouldn’t make game more about roleplay. To improve roleplay they need to introduce consequences of the decisions in the future storytelling. For example depending on your covenant you can get different last boss for a dungeon. Or optional boss for raid. Eventually you can get different questline than someone who chose different. I feel that different questlines, mounts, transmog and maybe even unique glyphs for spell effects would be enough for players to make new alt and replay it. Choice of Covenant on the other hand have consequence of limiting your power in certain content. I’ll probably choose Necrolord for arena even though they don’t fit my Shaman and I don’t like them.
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Essentially this, i was lookingforward to play 4 different classes so i can expirience all the stories not 4 warlocks so i can expirience all the power gains.
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In my opinion the covenant system was a mistake in the first place as we’re helping all of them anyway. Choosing one over the rest is…perplexing.
At least make them a purely cosmetic choice.
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SBAAAAAAAM
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Some quiet time tops, unless you do something of EPIC proportions that will cause the Team Elitist to give you a standing ovation before the post in question is removed.
Sorry, my chars are all Horde, wrong realm, and not really looking for guilds. One more chat channel that you can’t leave and you cannot /ignore everyone on it when they get cranky, that’s what guilds are nowadays xd
Print this in over 9000 copies and send it to the resident troll, aiming for that comical mail landslide style, so they can’t stop the messages overwhelming them. If they can’t get into their head that WoW playerbase doesn’t consist of them and only them, perhaps such radical measures are in order to enlighten them.
Yeah, honestly, we sucked back then. Also our PCs & Internet connections got better and can handle more mechanics & stuff than they could manage then. And the world changed, pretty much everyone has Internet, the information is there and you need only to reach for it. And this game is 16 years old, we KNOW how things in it work by now.
Yup. They created this talent system, so ultimately they’re responsible for what we do with it. If they didn’t want us to play with talents, then why they did make them changeable?
I’ve been there when people started first “Need 4 characters of X class to play Shadowlands properly” threads. Because knowing that Blizzard can’t balance stuff for their lives, it’s gonna be trollercoaster, one week cov A is the best for raiding, then it’s cov B for raid cuz A was nerfed in raids but buffed in say PvP… And switching covenants takes time so not really viable in all situations. So the only complete defense against this nerfstorm is having 4 characters, each in different covenant, each otherwise pretty much the same. Because cov abilities & other cov-related baggage are THAT important by output. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Solution: Removing player power from their RPG choices. Kinda like Sylvanas/Saurfang story in BFA: you can get some cosmetic rewards, you get to play that branch of the story, and that’s it, you don’t miss anything, you don’t get anything that affects your character’s performance.
Preach it, brother! Have made a post along these lines somewhere. If these guys need US to fix their problems, well, why don’t WE dictate the terms? And come on, why can’t these morons get in their little heads that they all get massively screwed if they don’t cooperate? Start by draining anima of the first troublemaker who doesn’t want to play in team, observe the rest getting in line and starting to work…
Trust me my guild is nothing like that XD, its full of toxic and elitist scum.
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Surprised that he did not replied yet.
“HYPERBOLEEEEEEEE”
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You can defend covenants (as in the idea of a persistent choice) from the perspective of a competitive/optimization minded player that is not focused on narrative/cosmetic elements.
You can also defend it while having an unfavorable opinion of previous modern systems. I happen to be in both those categories. So arguments such as “you wouldn’t understand because you’re a casual player” or “you’re a Blizzard shill” just don’t work here.
However I am not sure it is worth going further into (done so in Shadowlands Beta threads) because the system as it stands now has drifted too much from the original intent : you can effectively be in two covenants within the same week, which negates the idea of a persistent/meaningful choice.
What did you think of that change ? To anti-restriction people, did that appease your frustrations ? I feel like both parties are dissatisfied with it now.
By the way, I don’t see the logic (or virtue) of people advocating for bans and actively harrassing players through dehumanizing and personal insults for a favorable opinion on a system current developers have proposed and even Kevin Jordan (OG wow game designer) have defended, while not addressing the arguments. Definitely worth flagging those posts.
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