Bump this if you want frost dk to get a fair buff!

I tried making a post about this before but hopefully this one will get more attention. I really feel that Blizzard should make the Covenant abilities do Shadowfrost damage.

I know balancing is hard and I won’t make any suggestions in redesigns. I like Frost the way it is now, I’m having a lot of fun. But this one is really simple and is honestly really frustrating as a frost player. Just change the damage type to make frost dk more appealing.

Right now it is barely played. It’s poorly represented and it’s being overshadowed by an overtuned spec. Why is it that the best melee spec in the game, ALSO gets the bonus from Covenant Abilities? Why? This makes no sense.

Let me break down the math for you to make it extra clear.

Here is how big the difference is:

[(23.67% of Attack power) * 13] Shadow damage over 12 sec to 5 nearby enemies. Let’s say we have 1200 strength. 1200 x 0.2367 = 284 dmg every second to five enemies. That’s what you deal as frost.

Just by being Unholy, nothing additional, just by simply being specced as Unholy:
284 x 50% mastery = 426 damage every second.

As frost abomination limb will deal a total of 3407 damage with 1200 strength and 50% mastery.

As Unholy it will deal 5112 with the same stats.
And this is AoE by the way, dont forget that.

Frost: 3407 x the target cap (5) = 17 035 dmg.

Unholy 5112 x target cap (5) = 25 560 dmg.

Just by being Unholy, one of your best cooldowns deals 8525 more damage.
(WITH HOTFIX THIS DAMAGE IS REDUCED BY 20%. IT SHOULD BE 6820)

Now I know you can argue that Pillar of Frost makes the covenant abilities better. But they scale much worse from AP. And it is the main cooldown for Frost, that’s where we do our damage. Anyone who plays frost knows how bad the downtime is for that spec, we move in burst windows.

And there is second reason why Pillar of frost isn’t a good reason. Pillar of frost takes time for it’s strength to build up. All that extra damage doesn’t come at once. It will be a gradual increase, depending on how well you manage to spend your runes and cooldowns, it’s earned with well-timed CD pops, not given for free like with Unholy.

I hope blizzard really comments this because it is absolutely ridiculous when you break it down. How is this fair to Frost dk’s? That unholy gets that damage bonus for free which Frost needs to work for!

Seriously guys, bump this thread because this gets my icy blood boiling. It is an absolute slap in the face to everyone who plays frost!

Here are some additional stats from the DK discord:

h t t p s ://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQfEo8a9TI9XcJVDBD67cfLlbQvx3biIyh7-bT6CwKkjgjEiiBY-Lg899lGi7nNPuxLWSgNPL5_DZKE/pubhtml#

If you needed any more proof that Obliteration is a useless build, here it is.
Obliteration loses at everything. Sometimes with a huge margin, almost 20-30% less damage.
And their burst AoE is absolutely pathetic. There is no reason why we shouldn’t buff covenant abilities to just do the same for Frost as it does for Unholy. This would make a really useful difference for Mythics for Obliteration build.
Look at the stat for legendaries and covenant in ST. Unholy wins everything by a margin of 1000 dps with no legendaries. Where does that extra 1000 dps come from? You guessed it, Mastery!

I would love to see someone from Blizz actually comment and defend these numbers. “Yeah you got 2h back, sure it’s worse in every way but BIG CRITS amirite?” Absolute turdburgling.

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The october nerfs forever cemented my jaded view on the devs in charge, it was not needed and done to spite us.

No one wants to be angry, or feel despair let alone act like a spoiled child that i no doubt think many views us, even with our problems “what do you mean Frost dk is bad? i got clapped by obliterate in WoD, good riddance i say!” that is kinda how it feels, countless suggestions have been made, feedback have been given, players have brought forward their concerns regarding BoS (and no, not the Acheris Discord elites gatekeeping), our shadowlands beta thread is/was the longest thread with respectable responses and ideas…not much was done in essence. Someone did try because Shadowlands is not BFA, nowhere near that is a given, but things could be so much better, so much more enjoyable.

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This is an incredibly common attitude, and it baffles me. People being happy about specs being hammered down to become unfun and awful and thinking it’s good because the spec used to be powerful.
Just look at all the people gloating over how Havoc is trash now, it’s unbelievable.

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I love DH’s, even in their powerful state in Legion. Solely for their ability to spot rogues and the 1.0 stealth gameplay that has been in the same since vanilla, i wonder how much less domiance Sub rogues could have been if Havoc DH’s where around to stop them jump and 2 shotting.

And on topic, i agree that gloating that a class has been overnerfed is bad decorum, and that is coming from a guy that Loathes Rogues and WoW’s stealth mechanic of no energy drain or CD on the skill itself, that you move FASTER in stealth is ridicoulus(people that played warhammer online know what im talking about), but i would never want em to be crushed and destroyed, even if right now i would very much like a little adjustment in how they perform with their setup, even after the nerfs.

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The said thing about it is that the more known frost dk community members like to get slapped in the face. I have yet to see one of them point out the obvious issues with frost dk.

Instead all of them talk about how it’s fine because you can do content with it… sure, i can and i do content with it, and i wouldn’t mind being on the lower end of logs (someone has to be there) if the difference wouldn’t be ridiculously huge between the last and the first place. But right now the difference is big, and not just between the low tier and the high tier, but between the low tier and mid tier, and its not fun to get outdps-d by a facerolling unholy dk who has blue logs in m+ while i do my best and have mostly purple logs. It’s ridiculous.

As you and others already said, covenants abilities doing shadowfrost instead of shadow damage would be already a good change (not enough but better than not touching the spec at all in hotfixes) and i can’t even understand how they thought that it would be okay to have shadow scale them up with its mastery while frost have literally no synergy with any of them.

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Because we are “good enough” apparently. in PVP, and PvE, with niche applications and crutch talents.

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The first step to recovery for this class will be to remove deaths advance passive to make way for reasonable balance, no class should have effectively permanent immunity to slows, and this should also be reflected in the other classes, shamans and druids etc. Druids having charges placed on their impairment removal or shifting in general and shamans just having a temporary ability to do the slow prevention thing while deaths advances active effect being the dk slow prevention, without the passive.

This will make it more reasonable to bump up the death knights up front damage as they could once again be slowed down and played around as it was before.

I say were better of starting to talk whit our wallet’s against blizzard if they dont want to tune frost in to an ok state then we should not pay them any money,

Never reward lazynes and stupidity they haven’t earned the money if things keep staying as is then nothing will change.

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BUMP!!! We need BUFFF

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infinite pain

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we need hope XD

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daily bump to this thread
And further… I know this is holiday week, but couldn’t you give a 10% buff? BLIZZARD!!!

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yea needs something

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Frost DK need buff, slight rework

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A minor % buff to damage (5-10%) and KM’s proc rate tweaked so that KM showing up outside of Obliteration’s PoF period doesn’t feel like a dissatisfying and painful rarity. I’m sure that many would like more, but it’d certainly be a start, and it’s hardly a hefty demand either.

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Make MotFW make FS apply Razorice and make FS cleave up to 5-7 targets inside DnD for 2h frost.

Make Obliterate ignore armor outside of KM and leave it as frost damage in KM. That way non-KM obliterate won’t scale with our mastery but won’t hit like a wet noodle outside of it either.

Also, give us a glyph that makes DnD and DC look blue and frosty.

And lastly, make every covenant ability deal Shadowfrost damage.

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I’d reckon a lot either plays frost as alt or has swapped over to another main, I’m part of the first

And yeah honestly it feels like there’s so much wrong with the frost playstyle I’m interested in (obliteration 2h) that I don’t even know where to start really
A bit harsh of a pill to swallow to have the returning Frost 2h playstyle be dead on arrival

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Looks like 2H is getting 2% damage buff. Anyway… Right now if you search “BUFF frost dk” this thread shows high up on google!

Let’s keep it up, guys! Let Blizz know that the frost dk community wants changes. That every single piece of calculation avaliable, every tier list from Nathria and Mythic shows how frost dk is in a bad spot. It’s scaling is worse than Unholy, it’s damage has longer cooldown, and for the love of god, switch back the changes from empower rune blade. Why it still lowers cooldown when you reversed the 45 second cooldown on pillar of frost is beyond me. It is absolutely useless, except in Torghast, and right now the only thing it shows is how the people responsible for that change don’t play the spec. The synergy with pillar of frost and lower cooldown on it is already gone, why keep it?

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We can bump how much as we want, getting the word out about The state of DK has been notoriously hard since we have creators saying we are fine/ an entire Discord gatekeeping and downplaying the state of the class, that blizz somewhat listens too, not these forums.

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I would also create a post on Reddit so that the blizzard would definitely notice that the class needs reworking or changes in some mechanics, in extreme cases, another class designer.

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