Burning of Teldrassil was a genocide

Ok, I never thought this has to be made clear. I thought something as obvious as what burning of Teldrassil and wiping vast majority of kaldorei population is will never have to be talked about, because to someone with at least 2 digit IQ it is as obvious as where the sun goes during the night.
However after seeing certain comments in threads I realized that horde players are actually even dumber than I knew.

So let me explain to you, just as if you were sitting in school- Genocide is intentional mass killing of one specific (in this case) racial group with the intent to wipe them out- partially or as a whole.

(This is something that’s objectively true & basic stone on which I’ll explain the following.)

What happened at Darkshore before Sylvanas gave the order-

She had conversation with Delaryn, where she tried to make her feel bad about the weigh of her failing in an attempt to bring down and kill her remaining hope. Since Delaryn showed her tenacity towards such an attempt, implying she believes that hope cannot be killed, it enraged Sylvanas, putting her into a blind affect.

Ever since battle for Quel’Thalas, she felt lost and hopeless for considering herself a failure to her people. For not being strong enough to defend off the gates to The Sunwell and allowing Arthas to defile it with necromancy, ultimately destroying it. It is a personal injustice Sylvanas holds to her heart, and because she can’t let go of the fact, that she wasn’t able to stop Arthas and the scourge from murdering majority of the Queldorei population, she now wanted to inflict the exact same pain to others, as a way of coping with these emotions.

And That’s the main point - She wanted to make Delaryn feel exactly as she felt when she fell to Arthas. To watch all of her people die right before her eyes, to know that none may survive. To live forever with the knowing of failing those she was trying to protect

That’s why she gave the order, which she thought on the spot, invoked through an impulse in her blind rage, which makes this act a genocide- Intentional wiping of one race.


It’s about the message. The few thousand dead tree hippies were just collateral damage.

Yes in my eyes it was unforgivable war crime, and sylvanas is evil that is what i believe, im not her fanboy, she deserves to suffer for all of eternity for what she did during her rule.I hope jailer betrays her and sends her to the abbyss of maw.

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Jaina made her genocide in dalaran purging civilians as well…
Your shiny prince arthas destroyed everyone including your faction as well…

After the burning of that RP tree you guys whine for 2 years now your faction invaded, sieged and destroyed UC while jainas pink unicorn spaceship was bombing, then invaded dazar alor killed the king and stole gold and precious items.

The “GENOCIDE” bs alliance is whining for is nothing more than their shattered EGO because sylvanas cornered you well in BFA.

Its world of WARcraft, if you want peace play something else my friend.

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It was not a genocide as she didn’t want to wipe their race at all. She told them to leave after they betrayed her and used Dalaran’s resources to steal artifact from Darnassus. When they refused, she started escorting any horde into violet hold and killing any who attacked her. Not a genocide.

How is that relevant? Arthas haven’t fought for the alliance ever since he took up Frostmourne

We sieged UC, but Sylvanas destroyed it. Your own queen destroyed it, we barely scrateched the walls & didn’t even make it under the walls of Lordaeron, which, by the way is Alliance land that you stole.

Are you surprised Alliance laid siege to Dazaralor after your faction committed a literal genocide and bombed civilians of Brennadam? Yikes.

It’s completely irrelevant how players feel about it. I was just simply stating the fact that it was a genocide, because there are still some people who deny it for what it was.

iT’S woRlD oF wArcrAft nOt pEacEcRaft.
Very original, did you think about it yourself?
Let me ask you this. How come Alliance fights with honor, yet your faction is unable to do so a single time? How comes when it comes to using dishonorable, disgusting tactics like killing civilians, killing your own troops or using chemical weapons, horde are always the ones to do that?

PS> All of you wrote completely unrelated to what I wrote. I explained why Burning of Teldrassil was a genocide & you talked about completely different, unrelated events

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She gave the order because she wanted to pump the Maw with enough souls to speed up the schemes of the Jailer and feed a borked afterlife system that had already been twisted by Denathrius to further Zovaal’s plans.

Also, having her wiping out a large quantity of the Night elf population came as collateral effect from the fact that she wanted to target the largest population hub she had around.

I know it fits rather well with the whole prosecution complex some of you NEFPAs have, but Sylvanas didn’t target Night elves because she hated their specific racial/factional group.
They simply lived in the most populated settlement close to the Horde’s seat of power.

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There is literally 0 lore that confirms she knew the machinery of death was broken, therefore she had no clue whatsoever.

On the other hand, there’s plenty evidence from the warbringers short and Elegy, that she gave the order on an impulse in rage, being obsessed with killing hope above all.

Wiping out night elves was not a collateral, it was her main goal in the few seconds after she finished her conversation with Delaryn. It may not be her ultimate long term goal, but it became her priority after Delaryn angered her.

The new SL cinematics just confirms my reasoning, she’s now giving anduin a choice, a choice she never had. She wants him to let go of hope as well as she did. Just like she wanted Delaryn to do the same, by wiping her race.

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It was revealed that it was during the events of Edge of Night , that Sylvanas’s relationship with the Jailer, an ancient evil who rules the Maw of the Shadowlands, started.
It was also revealed that she started the Fourth War in order to kill as many people as possible in order to feed their souls to the Maw which allowed Sylvanas and the Jailer to both grow greater in strength.

You may want to reconsider bits like these…

And wonder who is dumb here, if you are to have stances such as the above.


We know it was a genocide, Blizzard literally stated that like thrice. The only people who deny it are sweaty Sylvanas simps.


I read Edge of the Night. I also paid very close attention to bfa lore, and twice as much for the SL one. There’s 0 direct evidence that Sylvanas KNEW that machinery of death was broken during war of thorns. She knew it will be once, but during war of thorns, her main goal was to prevent anduin from using azerite to preserve life, and to prepare for the upcoming slaughter to funnel souls in the maw.

Are you blind? Can’t you read the source i just quoted?

You realise that its a paragraph backed by Blizzard Devs, right?

Sylvanas knew about the Jailer scheme.
And she purposely started the Fourth War through the WoT in order to feed said broken system with souls. Night elf ones included.

You obviously can’t read so let me ask you instead.

Give me a quote, or any line from lore that specifically confirms she knew that Arbiter was asleep when she marched North to take Darnassus.

You can’t, because there’s none. The only information we have is that she knew Arbiter will be broken eventually, but not when specifically. Regardless, it’s irrelevant to her reason to commit the genocide.

Blizzard didn’t specify when in bfa she started causing as much death as possible for those reasons. It’s beyond obvious that if she wanted to start the bloodshed right away, she would burn Teldrassil on the spot, but she didn’t.

Because, again- her main goal was to prevent Anduin from using Azerite to preserve life and build, which would then, in the future, go directly against her plans.

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She knew the system was broken because she started the war knowing she’d be sending the souls of the dead into the Maw.

She knew this would come, because it’s specifically said that she had already interacted with the Jailer back in Cataclysm.

You’re saying this based on your assumption, while I’m saying what I’m saying based on the lack of evidence which is still more in line with reality.

Yes, she knew the day would come, but she didn’t know Arbiter was asleep during war of thorns. I have no clue why are we discussing it because it has no real effect on her reason to give the order regardless. But still, she didn’t know Arbiter was asleep, and just because Blizzard said something between the lines about causing as much death as possible to funnel the souls in the maw is just too wide of a statement. Again, we don’t know when specifically she wanted the factions to murder each other.

I just don’t get your logic. If she wanted to cause as much death as possible since before WoT, why didn’t she burn down Ashenvale on the way? Why didn’t she destroy and kill everything at Darkshore right away, instead of occupying it. Why didn’t she burn Teldrassil right away?

Why did Blizzard pay so much attention to show us that she was happy with her plan of capturing Teldrassil, only to change her mind after she was completely pissed because of Delaryn?

Your logic simply doesn’t make sense in wider context, which is exactly why I hate debating horde players on lore. You can’t just focus on 1 single thing, when so much more is involved.


No, i’m quoting Blizzard devs clarification regarding Sylvanas motives in BfA and Shadowlands.

You aren’t quoting blizzard. You repeat 2 sentences you heard somewhere that aren’t even proving your point & linking edge of night that’s completely unrelated to what I was talking about at the moment

I asked you for a specific proof that Sylvanas was aware that Arbiter was asleep during WoT, you didn’t present any.

If you think that Sylvanas’ motive being causing as much death as possible is a proof that she knew Arbiter was already asleep you’re just oblivious. Not really caring about what actually went down, but searching for any tiny bit of information that might support your bad arguments, even though the evidence itself proves nothing about your point.


Yes, i am.

This paragraph:

It was revealed that it was during the events of Edge of Night , that Sylvanas’s relationship with the Jailer, an ancient evil who rules the Maw of the Shadowlands, started.
It was also revealed that she started the Fourth War in order to kill as many people as possible in order to feed their souls to the Maw which allowed Sylvanas and the Jailer to both grow greater in strength.

…is sourced by Blizzard’s “What’s Next” panel of 2019 Blizzcon.


This information came from Afrasiabi himself.

Except a literal clarification from the writers of the game’s story, that highlights the fact that she knew that the victims of the Fourth War would be sent to the Maw. And started it because of it.

You really can’t read. But you’re a horde so I should have been expecting that.

Nothing you presented confirms that Sylvanas knew Arbiter was asleep during WoT.

Yes, she had relationship with Jailer since end of WotLK
Yes, her motive was to cause death

How does anything of these confirm that she knew that Jailer managed to break machinery of death? Most importantly, was it even Jailer?
Even if it was, how in the hell would she know that he succeeded? The only way Azeroth and Shadowlands are connected is because of the Helm of Domination and only the Lich King, who literally wore it on his head was able to feel the presence of the Jailer. How would Sylvanas maintain contact with Jailer to know exactly what will be when happening.

Again. for like fourth time now. No evidence that she knew Arbiter was asleep, and you can stop trying, because there’s none. Whatever you posted just confirms 2 things that i’m not arguing about- She made contact and a pact with Jailer and her motives during bfa. None of the two things confirm her knowledge of the events after emerald nightmare. none.

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We literally have a Blizzard writer (the chief of the writing team at that time), clarifying that she started this whole war because she wanted to send souls to the Maw.

How did she know they’d be sent there if she didn’t know that the Arbiter was out of the game?

Don’t want to waste any more time. Check again on the information given.

I’ll leave again the quote:

Also, you may want to examine who is acting dumb around here :joy:

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That makes her look even worse though - having the plan all along to screw over Horde and lie in their faces. I do understand why she was so much in the rush to park the war but that moment in Warbringers did seem bit made out of spite - on spot. Which in turn would benefit her plans - like killing two rabbits in one shot.