That’s the interpretation some could have, given for her actions outside of her inner thoughts.
But taking the latter into account, we have diametrically opposed characters.
What they made out of her at the end of last expansion, seemed as the result of being written by someone that had never bothered actually informing themselves about the character.
Someone that took instead the superficial “malevolence” that permeates a race like the Forsaken one, and pushed it to the character’s very core in order to have the villain required.
But yeah, you can’t feign these sort of feelings (all taken from Sylvanas inner monologues):
She would prefer to dissuade Forsaken—any Forsaken—than destroy them
She was proud of them for that. But she could not show favoritism, not here
I would have saved them…
She would like nothing more than to return and be among them once more
Now I want you to go to honor our fallen…
Or stuff like:
If the Horde retreated now, Varian’s army would fall. But if the Horde stayed and fought, then both armies would fall. Sylvanas had closed her eyes, each option unacceptable to her.
Regarding the sacrifice to be made at the Broken Shore.
She had told no one of the regret she had felt when, standing on the stern of her ship, she beheld the green smoke of the explosion below, where Varian had fallen, and wondered if she was watching the final, excruciating moments of a mighty warrior.
Regarding her respect towards Varian’s sacrifice.
Etc.
And all the above, stands horribly in contrast to the sort of character we were supposed to accept and acknowledge in BfA/SL.
Those things are her inner desires and not that they are worng or discarded. But they way to showcase how she let’s each of her own attachments go in the way of striving for her goals. Those quotes exactly portrays how those short term desires fall short comapred to what has to be done. And ones who do not follow are meant to be removed. Her own visions always outweighs the mortal sentiments, because of whatever reason (she has seen the bigger picture, delusional, traumatised and so forth). And by the time we hear her sending even Nathanos away is when her last fatter falls off and up until Anduin is able to stir the seed of doubt in her actions she believes her cause to be right. That is why she falters in that cinematic, because she has given ALL for that cause, standing all alone in precipice of no return.
She does care for the ones who helped her in achieving her goal of revenge on Arthas, the shared suffering and misunderstanding. But its not enough to have her to spare them and sacrifice the plan that she has devised for them. Because as we see it now those who died will find eternal salvation if she succeeds or so she sees it that way.
Their whole story was that they were able to regain free will because of Arthas losing grip over them. Thats it nothing more and nothing less. They are still instruments of lich king. Their name forsaken comes from the fact that they were shun from their living kin and they were not the part of scourge. They were outcasts that didn’t fit anywhere. Their revenge against Arthas.
They are scourge, but with free mind. They suffer the same damage from sources that brings them pain or final death.
Fact that their separation from scourge happened by chance doesn’t mean they are not made and killed same way as the rest of them.
Also identity doesn’t equate to the origins.
They are more close to each other then Blood Elves and High Elves.
Did not read the whole thread, going to sleep for now
About the name of the topic… Like, what’s there to discuss? There is a short story, available for free
The whole thing explisitly stated in the story that it is
The World Tree was more than a city. It was an entire land, home to countless innocents. How many night elves were elsewhere in Azeroth? Far too few. Now, they were all who remained of their people.
Sylvanas Windrunner had committed genocide.
Anduin had known she was selfish—arrogant, too. Cunning.
Can’t remember all the interviews the devs ever had, but when the topic was raised, for example, here, https://venturebeat.com/2019/11/07/world-of-warcaft-shadowlands-looks-to-address-battle-for-azeroth-biggest-problems/
with a question
How is Tyrande doing? Last we saw her in Battle for Azeroth, she was pretty upset about, you know, the genocide against her people.
there was not even an attempt to portray it in any different way.
Ok, maybe I can pretend to be clever for a little while. Sorry for a wall of text.
Let’s be honest, it was blighted by Sylvanas. And given Anduin’s track record, I doubt he would deny the forsaken or the horde in general the option to be in the place.
Well, last time the dev team could not keep the faction theme even for a single whole expansion, so even they struggle with the theme outside of “we need to fill the gap while we figure out who is going to be the next big bad”.
Well, to be honest, Arthas is considered to be a part of the alliance. At least that is Anduin’s position and he is kind of the head of human nations so far: https://youtu.be/2DjwOglqONg?t=116
In the game the whole thing was portrayed atrociously. But post-factum, once the Shadowlands explansion was announced we got such info in an interview:
“Machinery of Death” was broken in the Legion time frame.
Aww, why would you put yourself through such depressing experience? You need a doze of positivity after something like that.
The problem is, logic is not the best tool when it comes to WoW story.
Like, on the horde side the story starts with Varok Saurfang, same Saurfang who during the Garrosh trial got to the conclusion that he would rather kill a warchief than allow to drag the horde into another shady story, seemingly forgetting about his own character progression. But maybe orks can’t read so he was not aware of the content of the War Crimes book, I can’t say for sure.
And on the alliance we have a total absence of draenei in the event. Like, the same draenei, who has military part depicted since TBC days as “we die without a question” if needed.
So, the story of the faction conflict starts with both sides having elements on the border of being out of character. So much for trying to logically analyze the thing.
Nah, they just intended to make her impressed by Thrall’s muscles, and be pro-peace entity and a convenient plot devise for something in Shadowlands.
Anything that gives extra context to old events is a “retroactive continuation” pretty much by definition. Afaia. Retcon as a thing does not mean something bad. It’s just one of tools to reuse old assets among other things.
I’ve heard these discussions on the internet about ‘she’s going off the rails’, but is she? I’ve been writing Sylvanas personally since 2006, and this is pretty much - the Wrathgate and the Blight and the Forsaken - in character. Those were all under Sylvanas’ orders . What we’re seeing now is an escalation of the plans Sylvanas has, clearly, and we’re in the middle of that.
I mean, it’s up for people to interpret the info, but that’s the original information.
They [Before the Storm and the in game cinematic of the event] also make it clear that she did not want to be a warchief. Only to later reveal that what she did was a part of the plan and she had intention to become a warchief.
Well, to be honest the first examples of it go back to Cata starting zone if not Classic. But it’s one of those things that you have to dig to find, and it was one of possible path for Sylvanas alongside with others that people could prefer.
Sending Forsaken troops to the Wrathgate, was indeed part of her orders.
Creating the Blight to use it against the Scourge in the Wrathgate, was indeed ordered by her.
Using it against the Horde, and the Alliance, was not.
And both the quests that followed, as well as any other information that has tackled said events up until now, reinforces said fact.
Unlike a lot of other stuff, said particular bit still hasn’t been explicitly overwritten by a retcon.
She had no idea regarding what Putress planned to do against the factions there. Nor about his deal with Varimathras and Sargeras.
Purge of Dalaran was still not a genocide because during it her intention was not to wipe their race. Her intention was to drive out horde from Dalaran after they betrayed the Alliance, which is perfectly reasonable. Teldrassil was a genocide committed out of time of relative peace.
Not true, she attacked specifically after they stole the artifact. What she could have done is irrelevant, this is no place for speculation.
Therefore you are equally responsible for Gul’Dan and everything he has done.
See how dumb it sounds?
Arthas didn’t fight for Alliance once he took the Frostmourne, he in fact, hurt Alliance and betrayed it more than Horde could imagine. He served the Jailer who controlled him, just like Gul’Dan served Sargeras, not their factions.
You’re either blind or dumb. There’s a literal cinematic. The UC was destroyed by Sylvanas’ blight. Alliance merely damaged the Lordaeron portion, which was the top part of UC, not UC itself. Sylvanas destroyed your own city, suck it up.
Ah yes, the typical horde “it’s WARcraft” argument when they have nothing else to say and know they are in the wrong, but will do anything but to admit it xD
Well glad you’re saying that, therefore don’t blame us for sieging Dazaralor:)
Oh I don’t know. We’re not the ones who use chemical weapons. We’re not the ones who leave other soldiers behind. We’re not the ones who put our own people into prison and torture them into our service. We’re not the ones who kill our own soldiers and civilians.
I’m talking about Sylvanas killing civilivans on multiple occassions. Betraying humans who helped her in WC3 and killing them, raising them as undead and manipulating their minds, killing human civilians, night elf civilians, worgen civilians, then killing even HER OWN civilians during Arathi gathering. Just Yikes, what a cesspool horde is.
Yes, it started a war.
And genocide is a warcrime.
doesn’t change anything about the fact that Sylvanas committed genocide. I wasn’t here to complain that it happened, but explain why it happened.
Well, as I said, it’s up to people to pick the preferable interpretation. Even Chronicles were written that way.
Like most good lies, Sylvanas Windrunner’s account of the rebellion in the Undercity contained some truth.
Whether she was aware that Putress and Varimathras were planning to use the concoction remained a mystery. Rumors persisted that she knew about the attack at the Wrathgate beforehand, and her denials did not assuage the doubts of her detractors.
So, we’re all free to speculate until we have a full confirmation.
“There are interesting story threads behind the question of who was at fault,” Danuser says, suggesting that the ultimate order might not have come from Putress at all.
“We’re not saying one way or another,” Danuser said.
It’s a bit strange how you take the stand that Sylvanas didn’t burn Teldrassil out of spite because of information given to us on Blizzcon, an out of game source, but you refuse to follow the same way of thinking for the interview with Afrasiabi.
That said, it’s not really important why Sylvanas burned Teldrassil. Whether she planned on it or not (personally I think it’s clear she always wanted to start this massive war, and the plan of capturing Teldrassil was almost perfect to stop another war), but in the end the result is the same. Thousands of people (children too) dead. Big enough numbers and a concentrated attack enough to be called a genocide.
People don’t want to admit that her intention was to kill the night elves. Yes, as so idiotic as it sounds, they actually try to pretend they believe that. Then again those people are horde players & i’m yet to meet one with at least 2 digit iq so this is the baseline of conversation quality with them
The burning of Teldrassil was a well-executed attack to punish the wild elves for breaking the peace signed in Pandaria. Soon, Nordrassil will burn in the Black Moon heretic’s absence and the Shal’dorei will ascend as the only claimants to restore the Empire!
Teldrassil wasn’t punishment for anything, Sylvanas didn’t give a rat’s sh… about giving Horde what they wanted. Whatever she did she did for herself on her own terms and only used you, dogs, as a means to do so. You horde are always only used, you have no culture, no opinions, no free will, everything is dictated to you through your leader and you just accept it and pretend it’s who you intended to be in the first place
fyi you’re using a dialect of Darnassian instead of creating your own language, just like those barbie dolls in silvermoon lmao.
Im not going to get through the same things again and again
Alliance sieged it and destoyed walls, you can see it in the BFA cinematic whilst jainas pink unicorn spaceship was bombing.
As a last resort Sylvanas blighted it at the end to make it useless for you who thought you got it. If you ask me, MASTERFULLY DONE.
The game was created in the humans vs orcs theme of WARcraft.
War between the factions is EVERYWHERE, the theme changes to unite help to defeat sargeras/archimonde/nzoth ETC ETC.
Neither burning the RP tree is, nefls are everywhere now if you guys gonna call it genocide to add something up im afraid its another effortless attempt. Youre still whining because your fragile alliance feelings got hurt.
The war was already started since both factions found out about azerite. Sylvanas moved first, then your boiking made 2 moves one in UC and one in DazarAlor. If you ask me, we need to take revenge for your actions on BFA still. You got away with it as your jaina did in the end of BoD as she should have died.
Because they had to as for garosh influence?
Stop being so pittyful excusing each and every crime your faction made. Its beyond a joke now.
While you are responsible for sargeras which is a goat like you, have it your way.
He did fight before that and he got to frostmourne with the alliance’s help. Live with it and stop the pitiful excuses again.
That is exactly what i was thinking about you since you cant see the cinematic of your sieges bombing it and your Vjaina’s spaceship bombing it.
Sylvanas blighted it at the end to render it useless for you triggered little goat.
Well it is WARcraft and it always was, but i guess its not WARcraft each time your get rekt right? Get a grip and your fragile feelings will recover.
Your arthas did worse than that
And hoomans that where helped from the horde + belfs to clean up your shiny princes mess attacked the horde inside ICC and outside ICC as they where cleaning your mess. Learn the facts.
There is no warcrime as its a fiction based storyline inside a game but there are snowflakes that need to log off and stay out of the game for a while because they started thinking its real.
You’re inconsistent, either apply the universe roles for both factions, or don’t talk at all, explaining something based on real life morals is impossible to horde player. All you guys do is cry about how you aren’t the bad guys and then laugh when innocent women and children burn alive and deny it was a genocide, yikes.
Not really, im always stating exactly the same things.
Because all you whiners do is crying about horde racials+lore+gear+WPVP and whatever you can whine for. You whine and expect no answers to your nonsese about GENOCIDE in a fictional game? I dont think so
Of course there are warcrimes holy how dumb you are. The WoW is in a universe and everything you see is based on real life concept- Relationships, war, crimes, hate, love, conflict, language, are those things also not real just because it’s fictional? Literally everything in WoW is resembling real life, including warcrimes so yes, there are warcrimes, there are crimes, there are morals, that your faction obviously doesn’t have, just like people who play it.
Just log off mate and take a walk, youre taking a game too seriously.
Everything is fictional and if you dont stop im seeing you pretty soon hiring a lawyer and suing Patty Mattson(Sylvanas voice actress) for genocide and warcrimes
