I do not know what it was in the minds of the developers that designed this system, however we just done BWL with 3x affix, we cleared more than half of the raid and after a wipe at 5th boss, we released, ran in just to find one someone turned off two of them and ruined the entire run.
How can you design such a system, in which any player can troll you at any stage of the raid and you can’t do anything about it ? Either ONLY allow the raid leader to change difficulty or allow us to re-enable them when someone is trolling or clicking unknowingly.
We lost some 9ish items tonight, we don’t even know who deactivated them, and even if we did, there would be no way to re-enable them. I am afraid to lead pugs anymore knowing this could happen again and there’s no way for me to police it once a boss is killed. There’s no way for me to re-enable it, I doubt there would be any consequences to people doing it on purpose to troll the rest of the raid.
It’s a season, share your feedback in tickets, discord and socials with Classic team.
If you are only here to blame developers for trying new things in SoD and forget things or making mistakes, don’t play a season. Because we are actually the testers and that’s why our experience and feedback is important.
Enjoy your weekend.
Luckily this has never happened in my raids and the only advice i have for you and others is to be clear with everyone at the start of your raids that no one turns in any tokens during the raid incase some accidently press the "remove affix " button
What blizzard could add is to add a 2-3 min timer till the affix gets removed, this way incase you press the wrong button it can be enabled again.
NPC should also announce who removed the drake to all people in the instance + that drake is removed
It would be pointless, what can you do once someone disable the affix ? kick him ? Your raid is already ruined. Yes, giving you 2-3 min to re-enable could be an option, but that would imply some other condition like not entering combat during that time so it wouldn’t be abused. And if someone is trolling they would get your raid in combat.
You can enter raids and whenever someone is pissing you off, if a boss is dead, all you have to do is disable their affix and they are done for the week. Even if you can prove who did it, I doubt anyone would take any action against said person, they could just claim they didn’t know what they were doing.
IMHO the only solution would be to only allow raid leaders to turn the affix on/off.
In a seasonal game that’s mainly targeting casuals it seems at least absurd to claim that, considering guild raids require much more maintenance than pugs do, not to mention people having multiple chars and making it close to impossible to join multiple guild runs weekly. PUGs were always something people would turn towards to avoid corrupt loot distribution methods such as corrupt council members always favoring their friends.
You should also keep in mind trolling got no boundaries even in guild setups, there are many cases of trolls ruining guild runs for fun, even wiping raids like Naxx on hard-mode after planning it for months and faking being a good guild member just to ruin the game for everyone else and get their characters deleted.
You can go 19/20 guild member and say one week a healer can’t make, no back-ups from the guild can either. Would you cancel your raid instead of pugging one player?
Seasonal doesn’t remove the need for well deserved criticism, small indie companies with small projects and even smaller teams, of even less qualified staff members are also subjected to criticism. Why would a team of experienced developers be excused from that, when they can’t foresee such issues, or add preventive measures ?
But I agree, this is seasonal and it should also cater to casual players that go in PUGs.
I am sure that if your raid was the target of trolling because of something this idiotic was done by the developers, like allowing anyone to do it, your sympathy would be much lower, if at all.
Well what im suggesting is that it takes 2-3 min till the affix get removed, meaning it cannot be abused. You press button to remove affix and after 2-3 min its gets removed and thats when the raid can continue without affix. When button to remove is pressed, its announced who did it also. The button to remove affix cannot be pressed when anyone in the instance is in combat.
When its clicked by accident, its still no problem, just to press re-activate and its up.
For the time when some person is intentionally wanting to destroy the raid (which I think happens on rare occasions) then you remove the person and hope your raid is skilled enough to complete the instance or maybe someone got offspeccs etc. Also keep in mind that the raids are tuned for up to 40 man, so if you are unsure about your raids, then bring an extra healer and a few dps so that if things goes to sh*ts it wont really effect the raid.
I think its more likely people press the button by accident then by someone intentionally wanting to destroy a raid. If they want to make it so that only raid lead can change the affix, then Im up for that too.
I believe that complicates things for no reason. Think the best and easiest solution would be to only allow the Raid Leader to change the difficulty settings.
Your suggestion is good, but it will leave room for abusing the system and for trolling, you can’t expect people to always have best of intentions, that’s why even for loot we got an option of Master Looter, because of lack of trust of the good intention from every single raid member.
As is, the system is easy to abuse, you can join any raid and if you don’t like the way someone looks at you, you just go and mess with their ID and they can’t do anything about it. I can’t understand the logic in allowing everyone to mess with it, best motive I could think about is so that the RL doesn’t have to go to the entrance if someone is already there, but you can always pass the RL from 1 player to another to handle that, if required and if it would be limited to just the RaidLeader being able to toggle it on/off.
Actually what you see there is confusion being expressed about the intentions or reasoning behind the decisions made by the developers when they created the system. I am clearly questioning the logic or thought process involved in the design of such a flawed system that can be abused without any effort.
But here, to remove any confusion on your part and change to a more neutral “tone”, I will rephrase this: “I’m not sure what the developers intended with this system.”
Now, does that help? Does it fix the issue at hand ? Will it make the developers think twice next time ?
How about you avoid the public topic I’ve made here instead if it bothers you ? And let other people comment with constructive things to say.
This is not place for you to white knight, nor is it a section of the forum for you to police. If you dislike it, move on. The topic is made for public discussion so people can express their opinion on the mater and also to reach more people and hopefully warn them about what could happen in their future runs. Not everyone is reading the feedback channels and you cannot expect people to stay quiet when such issues could impact anyone at anytime. You trying to “block” information from reaching others just to satisfy your need of whitknighting won’t solve the issue, but my message being read by others could prevent more issues from happening to others.
I wish someone else complained here on this forum before me, that way I would have known what to expect and maybe, just maybe I would have been able to prevent it.
Season and casual dont mean guilds arent the focus when it comes to what the dev team is doing. And its not the first time I see the claims of corrupt loot councils come up and I find it hard to belive its such a common problem as people make it out to be almost no guilds that I see advertise that they are looking for people are even council guilds at all so out of all the guilds one can find its rather hard to belive everyone needs to get away from the like 1-3 guilds per server that might be a council guild.
Thank god this isnt hardcore and no one is loosing their char over someone doing some trolling at worst you lose out on some loot here, and with some light investigation you would be able to tell who it most likley was that did it in a guild run and have a talk with that person after the raid and see if it was just a honest mistake or them doing it knowingly if they did it knowingly you could always bench them for a while.
I would not cancle the raid but at that point I would also be really sure to remember if that player did something like turn of the trails and if they did I would never take that person as a pug again.
Guild runs are a more controlled type of run and that mitigates some of the risks of people doing stupid things, the trails give extra loot and at the end of the day we should keep in mind that 3+trails was clearly designed for organized play and not for pick up groups.
This isn’t a beta test, it’s a product that Blizzard are selling. If they want to remove subs and make it an actual beta then they are welcome to do so, until they do that then expect people to treat it like a product and the level of effort they are putting into this product is frankly not acceptable.
You should not force people to join a guild, nor should you force them not to - it should be their choice in the first place. There are many issues with guilds that many of us are not interested in, there is lots of drama, there are people being “enslaved” as back-ups, people that might never get to join any guild run unless some core member is losing electricity during a storm and I would be able to create a huge list of keypoints why for many of us a guild is not ideal or attractive. You can try to deny it and you can try to force your opinion about how good guilds are, but it would not change my opinion personally.
If the raid leader is at least decent, there are no issues in the pug raids, as long as people get clear instructions, they are most of the time just as capable to perform almost as good as they would in a guild environment, I’m not one keep track of logs but I bet we could find lots of top players there clearing their ID with PUGs.
The system was clearly designed for both guilds and pugs, otherwise they would have required you to be part of the same guild in order to be able to activate the difficulty level, so for as long as that’s not the case, the system is designed for everyone.
Change my mind.
LE: And yes, we did investigate, we had recording and we’ve pretty much figured out who did, as for the reasoning, it most likely happened because the said guy didn’t unboon when called for it, someone flamed him and he decided to troll everyone for it, it was a semi-guild run. (not that it matters or makes it right, nor does it gives us any comfort knowing he won’t be joining future runs, since the damage is already done)
Luckily you are not in charge of this business, and hopefully any other for that matter, because as a business you would consider :
Sustained engagement beyond temporary seasons.
Expanded player base that’s focusing on improvements to attract and retain players
High-quality content that makes game more attractive even if content can feel fleeting.
Player satisfaction based on goodwill, positive measures, relationship between you as a developer and the player base.
Implementing innovations that can balance seasonal content, that can be exciting and an investment in the long-term of the game’s growth.
SoD is meant to improve future WoW versions, so your argument is not even in the realm of validity.
“Through player feedback during these seasons, developers gain insights into which changes improve the game’s balance, innovation, and player engagement. This iterative process helps shape a better, more polished version of WoW in the long term.”
Basically you just try to argue for the sake of arguing with someone, but sadly for you, it doesn’t make you right, it just makes some people pity you.
