Calia Menethil (Discussion)

Lore Story
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So the Horde players hated her as they feared she will take the place of Sylvanas, that is not the case.

Calia was never treated with respect, as her Kingdom had some interesting rules. A woman cannot be Queen even if she is the oldest, so the crown would go to Arthas giving him all the attention.

Calia is merely a princess at that point. She was almost married off to Deathwing, by an arranged marriage and no one listened to her cries.

She later married in Secret to a man from Southshore, where she had a daughter with him.

When Arthas Attacked and killed her father (and possibly her mother) she ran away fearing for the worst. Undeads everywhere, people screaming, She hid in a muddy ditch for 2 days until she reached safety. Now imagine what that was like? Soldiers these days are trained to hide in a muddy ditch for days without food, Calia… she wasnt trained she is just a Princess.

She managed to reach Southshore and stayed there hiding until the Cataclysm where Undead (her own people) attacked the city and gassed it. She lost her Husband and Daughter not knowing where they are or if they are alive. She screamed and cried.

In Legion it appears she became a Priest.

In BFA she was killed by Sylvanas Windrunner while protecting her own people (both Humans and Undead of Lordaeron) sadly, she along with the Undead citizens were all killed.

She was raised by the Light. Not fitting in on the alliance, or the Horde. Not exactly human or undead.

The Horde dont fully accept her, and neither does the alliance (Tyrande was very mean to her)

She doesnt want anything to do with the crown, she just wants to see her people (both human and undead) prosper.

Worst part is, she never got to see her home. It was gassed during the war.

when looking for a tragic story, Calia is it. not Arthas, not Sylvanas.

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Horde and Forsaken players dislike her inclusion as part of the Forsaken faction because she has close to zero connection with everything that has to do with them.

For starters, she isn’t, and never was, forsaken.

And every time we look at her story, we do not see tragedy (at least, not tragedy above what an average Forsaken went through).
We see a leader that instead of standing up for her people, ran away to hide and leave them all at the hands of her brother, and just about now feels like returning once they already managed to carve a place for themselves, and make the one that wronged them, pay.

She knows nothing of their struggles and hardships, left them to fend on their own, and just now, when they are finally a prosper race, she is thrown as some sort of “saviour”.

Sorry, but the only thing i personally see here as comparable, is a mother that abandoned her kids when they were at their lowest, and just now decides to be a part of their life again because she is broke and they have the money to sustain her.

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Not really, or not only.
I hate her for many reasons. For once, her creation story as a light undead is so stupid, I can’t find words for it.
But wait it’s getting even better. During Legion she claimed “I’m only Calia now. Not princess”. She gave up all her titles etc.
Then comes Shadows Rising… Anduin knew if Calia would come along it could and likley would be seen as a provocation and as an attempt to take over the Forsaken. Yep, that’s Anduin making sense for once in this horrible book. Of course he botched it and he did allow Calia to go to the meeting. Well, she reveals herself and now claims to be “the rightful ruler of Lordaeron”. Right… Not only goes this against her portrayal in Legion it was a stupid move and Anduin knew it. Which was only a thing, so Calia could get murdered and be resurrected with the light as an Undead.
That’s another reason why I hate her.

  • Nonsensical light undead
  • Goes against her claims in Legion
  • Claims ruler ship over Lordaeron, despite never helping the Forsaken.
  • Hangs out with the Horde and the Forsaken for… no reason.
  • She is either part of, or at least could part take in the Horde council (Shadows of the Horde), which is awful.

The Forsaken don’t need another Menethil, they don’t need an Alliance character. They don’t need a light princes to “cure” them to transform them.

Calia is the blatant anti Forsaken in every way. It also doesn’t help that the Forsaken story was very radically changed in Shadows Rising to fit with Calia. For example: Forsaken not being allowed to keep memories from their old lives. Which was never a thing. There are so many quests and stories of Forsaken wanting their old things back. They knew who they were. One even tamed dogs in death, as he did in life.

That’s another part to hate her. This story part only exists to have a “legitimate” living offspring of the Menethil bloodline. Which only can lead in to “reclaim Lordaeron”.

Yep. She didn’t’ care for the Forsaken at all. Soutshore even helped the Alliance to fight them. Something new? This makes her, as part of the Forsaken only more jarring.

She has no connection to the Forsaken, or the Horde and she came for them basically out of nothing and is now sitting in the Horde Council. It’s so bad.

This.

Also this.

I also see Calia as a tool to destroy the Forsaken and make them into something else.

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She didnt exactly have a class at that point, nor was she trained to fight. as i said her Kingdom is kinda sexist. she was tought to sit and look pretty.

If she stayed, she wouldve died and what good would that do for her people? at least shes trying NOW better than Sylvanas could ever dream of doing. Sylvanas abandoned the Forsaken.

Not a savior, merley a Forgotten princess that is trying to make things right.

And she very much knows their struggle as she was there during the third war, she was there when Arthas turned evil. yet if she stayed, she wouldve became a WOTLK dungeon boss at best

How exactly can she go back to her “children” as a Human, especially at that point Sylvanas was the leader. She saw her Oppurtunity to at least visit in Arathi as it was a neutral zone. She never wanted to become Princess, she just wants to live a normal life with her husband and daughter, and they apparently died in Cataclysm. yet, she never once held a grudge against the Forsaken or the Horde

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I love how you exactly addressed non of my point’s.

Let my make a simple example for you.

Calia as a Forsaken, or even more so their leader (and yes she represents them at least to some degree right now. She was in Shadowlands and she was in meetigns of the Horde Council).

A light undead (as stupid as the idea is), with Calias story is basically the same thing like Elisande, or Azshara, or even Sargeras becoming the new leader of the Night Elves.

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sorry my internet is slow

this, i agree with

keep in mind i dont want Calia to become leader, i just want her to be appreciated more as a side character. She herself doesnt want to become a leader, just a neutral citizen

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That’s the thing though. I can’t appreciate her as a side character, because she is front an center. Perhaps she doesn’t become the new leader of the Forsaken after all the backlash. Right now I have to fear she will have some influence in the story.
Why is she allowed to speak during the Horde Council?

Of course she had some training, like all royals. Most likley at least in diplomacy, something rather useful. She choose to live a normal life, let go of her claims and live in a place that was helping Stormwid troops against the Forsaken.
If she would have stayed what she was in Legion… oh well, it would be one thing. But what she became is terrible.

I wouldn’t have as much of a problem with her, if she stayed a living priest, living her life, helping people. As an example. Where the story went with her though is exactly why so many Horde players are vocal in declining her.

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What does a slow internet connection has to do with adressing any of the trolls points?

I despise that Calia became a Light undead, either she and Alonsus Faol should’ve become Forsaken and work from there into becoming their new leaders without taking away what makes the Forsaken forsaken or she should’ve become and stayed a purely, alive, Alliance leader which the Alliance uses as a claim to Lordaeron.

(Maybe the Alliance could’ve been the agressors for once then).

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not exactly. Her Kingdom was clearly sexist, especially to royal women. Even her mother wasnt mentioned as having a class. we can make a conclution that she wasnt trained at that point, Alonsus Faul (as a undead) trained her.

Blizzard themsleves said she wont became a leader, as i recall they confirmed it in a Twitter post Q and A. so i dont think that will happen. Lillian Voss is the representative of the Forsaken at the council. Calia is there for Neutral reasons, same with Valeera and the Alliance.

She was also present in Ice crown standing with the Horde leaders, yet having a green friendly name to both Alliance and Horde players.

(this is my other character btw)

cause his reply didnt show up. Sheesh

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Neither did most of the citizens that fought and died alongside Sylvanas.
Most of the victims that were raised as Forsaken, were vendors, and civilians that later on learned how to fight.

And still fleeing, is not an excuse for her.
She could’ve returned to them once they were settled. She could’ve contacted them, or aided their efforts against Kel’thuzad and the Scarlets in Classic, or against her brother in Wrath.

She did neither.

No, she does not.
She was sheltered when the Forsaken were being prosecuted, front and back, by everyone that surrounded them. When the rest of human nations turned their back towards their plea.
And later on, she did nothing to aid them claim a home for themselves, nor took part in the efforts they had to do in order to secure themselves a future.

Being a human was never an issue if she had done so as soon as she could.
Sylvanas reached out at Stormwind first and foremost. And only after being rejected, did she decide that if everyone was to hate their guts, then they would carve a place for themselves on their own.

Still, there were many, many opportunities for Calia to show up and show her support of her people. We’ve had Forsaken interacting with other human members since Classic introduced the Argent Dawn.

Instead, Calia skipped past all the conflicts her people went through, turning a blind eye to all the hardships her people had to suffer, to instead live her life as some happy hermit hidden in her idyllic bubble.

And now, she just randomly decides to turn up and say “Hey, my decades long holiday is over, I’m taking over from now. Thanks for keeping my seat warm”? Yeah, that’s not how things should work.

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So… that’s why they had female mages, priest etc. and did let woman study right? Where are you even getting this from? And yes even in sexist societies some education was normal for royals. After all the women of your line have a role to play for the dynasty.

Perhaps she won’t. I don’t thrust them at this point. She is right now next to Lillian Foss front and center of the story and she is taking part in the Horde Council. Her involvement in whatever small way with the Forsaken is bad in my view.

Indeed, another red flag. That’s also something I mentioned, her as a representative.

Now explain to me, why she is part of the Horde Council, or can speak there and why I should ignore her claim “as true ruler of Lordaeron”?

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again, most of the hate is apparently for the fear that she will lead. Which WONT HAPPEN.

Yet Mediev came and warned them about the Undead and told them to flee, they didnt listen.

Jaina told them, and only a few beleived her and followed her to Theramore.

It was kinda their fault. They had oppertunities to flee, but rejected both Jaina and Mediev

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Read again. Your replies don’t seem like from someone who likes the Forsaken.

Why are you ignoring this?

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Why is Valeera present at the Alliance council, despite being neutral? to keep the peace and report back to the Horde, same thing Calia is doing.

I did find it a bit odd she was in Ice crown instead of Lillian, but i think shes only there probably as a refrence, This is the place where her brother died.

I like all races of Warcraft, aside from Mechagnomes…I even have a Blood elf, roleplayed as a Dark Ranger (Part of the Forsaken)

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Valera never reported back to the Horde, ever (on her own, at best messages from Anduin). Calia is not only “listening”. She was speaking and arguing.
Why is she acting like a leader of the Horde?

See. Like most of us. Yes it is odd.

So… why was only she there then? Common. She clearly has a role to play and I bet without backlash she should have become the light queen.

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She was in Ogrimmar the next day, chatting with Calia (the irony)

I guess we will wait and see what the next expanstion brings. She will play a role if the expanstion is light themed or void themed, but most likely she is just a side character. Blizzard doesnt want to anger Sylvanas simps after all

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Like I said before. Valera never, ever reported back to the Horde and not that’s not “reporting to the Horde”. Why do I even have to explain this?

A side character is getting a part in a book and is acting like a leader during meetings of the Horde Council. You get why this doesn’t work right?

Ah you are one of those players. Blizzard didn’t hit the Forsaken fans hard enough already right? This is a joke. People like you are toxic trash talkers because you don’t like one of the oldest characters.

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So im toxic now for not liking Sylvanas? I did have respect for her at one point, but after her betrayel and joining the Jailer she is nothing to me now.

So? A small part in the book is nothing, when Sylvanas gets tons of Books she is in, and recently a book was made for her too.

Lillian voss is representative of the Forsaken, not Calia. so if she is there to negotiate something it is not as a leader.

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Don’t play stupid. You were attacking part of the fan base, for no reason.

So no arguments. Like expected.

Again no arguments. Negotiating things, in the Horde Council, acting like a Horde member and arguing against leader of nations kinda looks like only a leader would act.

Let me explain somethign else to you. Because this seems to be funny to you and only a problem of

in your eyes. Face palm
Calia is the anti Forsaken and her inclusion leads also to a fear of changing the Forsaken into something different. More light based Forsaken, or something else. Of course she will also stay pretty, not like the other Forsaken.

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I apologize if you took it as a insult, to me simp is a funny word and im not the only one that uses it for Sylvanas fans that still love her to this day.

and yes i understand Forsaken players lost soo much with BFA, and thats terrible. But Sylavanas is a horrible character now and nothing will redeeem her

Lets just agree to disgaree. i think Lillian Voss is the leader, but whatever

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