But there are other opinions to be found out there which say exactly the same about Humans. Aluneth for example. He should be less biased than Rhonin.
This thread reminds me of why I don’t like playing characters who get into a lot of /e fights. Messy.
Depends! Shadow Magic primarily affects the mind, but as with Arcane it’s less the ‘type’ of magic (Fel, Arcane, Shadow, etc.) and more HOW that magic is applied.
Shaman and Mages both can make Lightning Bolts (Wind Element vs. Arcane)
Death Knights and Rogues can both make Anti-Magical Shells (Necromancy vs. Shadow)
There’s no ‘one type of magic’ that trumps the other. It’s a wide variety metric, based on Strength, Skill/Technique and Ingenuity. Gul’dan and Khadgar, both paragons of their respective spellcasting and arguably the BEST spellcasters of their eras, dueled in the Tomb of Sargeras and essentially kept totally even. Khadgar arguably had more power and skill, but Gul’dan straight up tricked Khadgar into letting him win (see the Legion Audiodramas).
Then you have Jaina x Thalyssra. Thalyssra, WEEKS into her withering fended off Dozens of Withered full-body tackling a dome she sustained for multiple minutes, AFTER placing three different assailants in a Time-Lock Stasis. However, she does have a REALLY good moment with Jaina after Saurfang’s Mak’gora, asking her how she pulled off ‘the flying boat’ at Lordaeron. While we could argue that the two ARE on Par theoretically in terms of power and skill, Jaina may have some more ingenuity and inspiration around the creativity of her spellwork.
Shadow, likewise, is different in it’s nature than Arcane. Absolutely, it can be hurled like a Shadow Bolt or erupted like a Scream to cause physical/magical damage, but it can also be used to whisper into someone’s mind and twist up their thoughts. Likewise, you can use Arcane Magic to transform people into Sheep or teleport half a person into a brick wall.
TL;DR, it’s not about the type of magic, or how ‘powerful’ a practitioner is. It’s about their creativity and ingenuity using it; Intelligence is knowing EVERY spell, but Wisdom is knowing that shoving a Polymorphed Sheep into a Portal makes a nuke.
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Now just wait until you figure out that there is no difference between these forms of lightning :^)
Mages are the OG dark shamans
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#DalaranDidNothingWrong?
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Uh, isn’t Thalyssra part of the invasion of Stormwind, fleeing from Jaina alongside Nathanos and the others? They seem’d quite scared of Jaina alone vs the entire group.
Edit.
Jaina is by all means a BFA raid boss, whereas Thalyssra’s previous leader is a 5 man boss in a dungeon.
At the time theyre also already running from numerous soldiers, Genn leading a whole pack of worgen, and a very messy prison break.
Not to mention the ever-growing threat of even more popping up, like Anduin.
Jaina wasnt the only Alliance member there.
And Jaina and Thalyssra, the respective top mages of their faction, both recognise Azshara as superior, and so the cycle continues.
There’s all kinds of ways to deal with magic. There was a period way way back when I was RPing on my druid that the world was being flooded by mage RPers who thought as long as they pre-prepared big emotes they could do anything they want with magic, specifically writing in foils to any counter. So I started RPing as having a Faerie Dragon familiar that just ate all the magic, which not only worked but required a much smaller emote to explain. I can recommend this.
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Tbh at the time she looked very much alone. OFC you can say they just couldn’t defeat her in time (before being overwhelmed), but the depiction of the encounter was way different (“you can try to stop us and likely succeed, but you’ll watch your city burn” - Zul).
Thalyssra is an extremely powerful sorceress but she doesn’t really have the feats that Jaina has.
Sure, the others hadn’t caught up just yet and it was, indeed, just Jaina and her elite magi there.
But all it would’ve really taken to stop the gang from making a timely escape was for Jaina to either freeze the water or sabotage the ship, neither of which really amount to clashing with Nathanos, Zul, Talanji, Hero McGuy, Rokhan and Thalyssra at once.
Also if with thalyssra’s boss earlier you meant Elisande, she’s a raid gamer.
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I think that it doesn’t really matter much if you throw a bolt of light, shadow or a lightning bolt, if it hits a fireball, both are very likely to cancel each other out!
Yep, but its your interpretation. I’ve taken the disturb to look at the quotes, and this is what Thalyssra says:
As for Zul, he actually says:
The power levels are clearly defined. The way I’ve seen it was these guys fleeing away from Jaina and being fairly helpless against her. If the fight was as even - with the entire team being able to overpower her - why not just stun her briefly and escape?
Elisande is on a whole other level, I agree. Her feats (with the Nightwell’s powers) are amazing and she’s one of the trickiest wizards that the adventurers ever faced. With the powers of the Nightwell and the ritual of her subordinates, her time magic is quite impressive. I think if she is empowered she is still below Jaina’s level when it comes to raw power (a bit my guess judging from what I’ve seen), but I’d also argue she has mastered a field which is way trickier (she has more method) and is more likely to get the upper hand in a duel.
Suppose I just can’t say I agree that that Stormwind scenario is any strong indication of the power levels. It feels a bit too obvious to me that the issue is that fighting her is a lengthy ordeal, something they can’t openly afford in the middle of the very heart of the Alliance’s military might.
Sure, it might be that Jaina’s just that strong. Or Zul and Thalyssra just have a sense of strategy.
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Her presence in the scenario is a setup for the raid encounter during the expansion. It tells the player that she’s a very big deal, even above Thalyssra. That’s a narrative device used to show her power levels. It’s there to tell you the difference between her and an elite squad of the Horde (which struggles to escape her abilities). They did fend off Genn alongside an entire pack of worgen. They didn’t do anything against Jaina except fleeing.
Even the quotes are not “we don’t have time to waste” but “we can’t fight her, let’s flee!”. If it was about strategy (as if fleeing from a stronger opponent isn’t strategy) the group just had to CC her and flee.
All magic counters all magic there’s no rock paper scissors.
I’ve often encountered DMs/groups of players who seemed to think only an X class can dispel a ward, for instance. Like, bruh, what do you think Purge or Consume Magic or Spellsteal are.
it’s not about the type of magic, or how ‘powerful’ a practitioner is. It’s about their creativity and ingenuity using it;
Roughly this.
That being said, I imagine SOME types of magic are better than others at certain things. For instance, if it comes to threatening an undead/ghost, the Light or Fel ( which destroys souls, so them not feeling physical pain means little ) is far more imposing than Arcane or Druidism/Nature.
I think you’re misremembering. They killed a handful of worgen and ran away as fast as they could before Genn ever even got close.
Other than that idk what to tell you. I can tell you’re really set on your interpretation, I just don’t particularly agree with it. I don’t think your view or mine will change without some notable new information.
I’m aware you wouldn’t change it as you are a diehard Horde fan. I’m just pointing out why the interpretation you offer isn’t solid.
I am? That’s news to me, considering all my RP has been alliance-side for months and Horde’s lore is presently in an absolute state of dismay.
Thank u for an insight into my own opinions mr zaphius.
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I think Genn instakills you if you walk near him in that scenario. IDK/IDC about Jaina’s powerlevels though personally
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I do know that she got easily kidnapped by a bunch of rando nameless shades working for Sylvanas so really how tough is she?
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