Then find ways to encourage those players without alienating the others?
1 Like
Again, you’re preaching to the choir. 
Guess we’ll see what Blizzard’s PvP plans are for Shadowlands as the Beta looms closer. Historically they’ve always changed the PvP design each and every expansion, so I guess it’ll be the same for Shadowlands.
I think BFA is indeed the worst gaming experience PvP has witnessed since release (maybe not in classic cuz there wasn’t a rating system yet) but overall literally every expansion had better pvp to offer than BFA had in it’s entire lifespan Legion coming close tho.
Gearing sucks.
You should be able to farm conquest points and spend them on gear depending on your rating aka (2400+ u can buy 475/485 and 475 azerite gear, 2100+ 470 gear/475 azerite etc)
You should be able to farm Honor points and spend them on gear. (M0 Ilvl with Azerite gear being 445). The first Conquest cap without rating will have too (445 azerite and 450 gear) bump from 20 ilvl’s on honor gear.
Class balance
I think iv’e never seen such a poor state of class balance ever and I had the same mind in Legion already when every class felt stale and dull to play with everyone without any practice being able to pull out the maximum out of a class.
Classes have too much passive tanking some need it but not everyone like it is the case right now. Passive lifesaver abilites > making skill not matter and games playing by itself without the possibility to counteract.
Destro is a good example they DONT need soul leech they DONT need Demon Armor give them a port baseline and some kind of ember heal system like in MoP (but not that op this time pls) those things are adding decision making abilites and active gameplay with the chance of fighting back with your own abilites aka being able to counteract.
And that’s the case with every Caster at the moment with an expection of Shadow Priest but they have other dumb tools going for which are uncounterable unless u click it away.
Melee Classes are way too dumbed down in BFA.
Warriors are nothing than dummies which run around spread their bleed and doing big spikes with 20k+ dps which makes the game played by DEFAULT.
SV is getting played by DEFAULT
DK is getting played by DEFAULT
all their number #1 damage abilites are dots which you can’t deal against or fight against as you literally have to take the damage no matter what even if it are disease and posion abilites.
Melee’s don’t have any high skill curve anymore and everyone’s the same at their own class if you play warrior you can’t make yourself special with your gameplay compared how others play you are a warrior and point. no one will see you different. same with windwalkers same with DH same with rogues. Feral i’d say is still a bit skilled to play but really cheesy be glad they’re not buffed.
PvP rewards.
The rewards are definetely lacking extremely there’s nothing to go for in PvP. The tabards are looking like made by some trainee during an internship same with the proto drakes.
Otherwise there’s nothing to go for it was already the case in Legion but at least there was an enchant added.
There needs to be a big tabard in old mop/wod/wotlk styles no faction crap just 1 Tabard at 2600 rating.
There should be a new enchant in corruption style which has the same expectional style like bloody dancing steel during MoP at 2400.
There should be a reward in the 2400-3100 range as the cap is way too big for gladiator and rank 1 thinking of an additonal title having higher quality than current gladiator or a new expectional mount.
2v2 should reward it’s own titles and mounts with the same expectional look as the gladiator mounts from 3v3.
Elite Gear is in my opinion made right in rating requirements but it’s looking is crap and outdated it seems like they don’t have any ideas anymore how to make good looking gear.
This are just some of my thoughts making it the worst xpac to date there is still some things to mention but thought i got the majority of what suxx for this xpac.
wrong btw.
10 Likes
By far the worst, but I’m very positive that it will stay that way and it will go uphill with Shadowlands again.
It would be atleast somewhat fun if we still had the playerbase from BfA S1, but people leave when the game is in such a bad state.
I think BfA is the first expansion where pvp got worse with every season instead of better. Usually they get it atleast somewhat right after a few seasons, but S3 is by far the worst season so far imo and S4 is looking like it will be even worse with even more pve gear.
the thing that really killed bfa for me isn’t even the bad class design or stupidly broken specs
it’s that they haven’t paid any attention to pvp for MONTHS and it comes across like they’ve comepletely given up / lost any interest in it. Overpowered/stupid specs I can deal with for a week or two, not for 6 months straight.
3 Likes
Yes, getting zerged by a team that overgears your team by a large margin is sure fun. I’m sure those alliance I stomped today and yesterday in a bg’s were enjoying it. I also enjoyed it when I played on a low gear alt and my team was equally badly geared and we were up against a bunch of players from m+.
PvP at low ratings and random bg’s doesn’t reward anything worthwhile compared to what pve gives. Add in the gap in gear and it will be a miserable experience for casual players. This will extend to any alts.
Here you have one example of people talking of it:
The standard advice now is to do m+ and the standard reply is “I don’t enjoy pve”. Where do you think these players do when when they give up? Do you think they will continue doing pvp? Or playing the game at all?
Please, don’t do that. Trying to devalue my opinion by grabbing some random statistic from the air, with the exception that you didn’t even bother making some numbers up.
Rewards in a mmorpg is important, be behind in gear and your experience will be bad. They had a working system in the past so we know there’s an alternative to this “spam pve and hope rng is nice to you”.
1 Like
Like I said earlier, I think some people just enjoy the PvP gameplay for what it is – warts and all.
I get the doom & gloom, and there’s a lot about PvP that can be criticized, but it doesn’t detract from the fact that a lot of people seem very engaged in it regardless. So the positives seemingly outweigh the negatives, for some.
I don’t think I did that. I merely argued your point that Random Battlegrounds are there for getting 40 Conquest points. I think that’s more of a personal opinion than a general assessment on Random Battlegrounds.
Again, like I said, I think there’s a segment of players who just enjoy doing Random Battlegrounds because they think they’re fun, not because they need 40 Conquest points.
But your opinion is definitely yours, and I’m not trying to devalue it. If I came across that way, then my apologies. That was not my intent.
Why don’t you answer this part, since it’s the most important one of my post.
75% of top healers in arena are resto druids and holy paladins. These are melee healers. Then is disc, monk and resto shaman and holy priests in the bottom. You see the non melee healers like holy pr and shaman are not so many. So, why is it wrong?
Them being reliant on Melee attacks is not the reason for them being OP or the “caster” healer being weak.
You won Jito… really. I m going to take a very long break from the game and maybe come back to new expansion. You made me understand that it s my fault that i dont enjoy the game as i used to. It’s my fault that i wanted vendors for gear as i used to . It s my fault that i wanted special pvp gear or at least some easiness to acquire gear through pvp as i used to. Finally it s my fault that i liked to play pvp all these years 2007-2016 and enjoyed it the most and have real progress…
You won. One player less for wow.
Thank you Jito…
Happy to help.
Hopefully you’ll find something enjoyable to spend your time on that brings you happiness.
Have fun. 
facepalm
6 Likes
What do you want me to say? Guy unloads all his problems and issues with WoW onto me, because I say that in my opinion BfA isn’t the worst expansion ever.
And because I don’t address each and every one of his “structural problems” with WoW, I’m somehow responsible for him quitting WoW? 
Whenever people project all their problems with WoW and Blizzard onto me, my response is always going to be:
I’ll gladly discuss WoW and PvP, but I’m not here to solve anyone’s issues with the game or act as spokesperson for Blizzard.
In your opinion Jito, which was the worst PvP expansion in WoW’s history? And a rough idea as to why. You’ll get no judgement from me, just given your evaluation of BFA’s PvP, and what aspects of the PvP experience seem to be the most important to you, I’m curious when you’d consider things to have been at their worst.
That you don’t get what his post means. And that you are so super biased, mr blizz fanboy.
2 Likes
Sure.
In my opinion, the worst PvP expansion was Legion.
The content additions were a mixed bag.
There were 2 new Arena maps, the World Quest PvP objectives, the Brawls feature, and the Seething Shore battleground.
The Arena maps were excellent. Both visually and thematically, Ashamane’s Fall and Black Rook Hold are well-made. 
The World Quest PvP objectives were unimaginative, and apart from Black Rook Hold and Murloc camp, they all consisted of the same NPC-filled tower in the middle of nowhere. 
The Brawls feature was a great addition that provided some fun and unique PvP experiences once in a while. Good stuff.
The Seething Shore battleground was first introduced in patch 7.3.5, so by the end of Legion. Thematically and visually it is by all intents a BfA battleground. Players weren’t able to play it for most of Legion.
Ultimately the content line-up is acceptable, but only just so. Not a lot of development effort has gone into most of it, it’s not all as well executed as you could have hoped, and certain other expansions have had way more PvP content to offer.
The systems design was a complete failure in my opinion.
The template system didn’t serve any purpose what so ever. The idea that it would “allow the developers to balance each class and specialization for PvP specifically, without affecting PvE” might have had some merit if Blizzard had actually followed through on it and made balance changes through the template system. But they didn’t, so it was pointless to have, and merely tied players to fixed stat allocations without opportunity to customize.
The gear nullification change was a disaster and the slump in PvP popularity throughout all of Legion is probably attributed to this.
For one it caused a huge disparity between instanced PvP balance and outdoor world PvP balance. In the outdoor world you could have tanks as strong as raid bosses and immortal healers and one-shotting Rogues and Demon Hunters, and in instanced PvP all your trinkets, legendaries, set bonuses, and effects would be disabled and your character would be completely unrecognizable and standardized into the same gameplay as every other person who played that spec. Everyone became a copy of everyone else playing their spec, as customization was nullified completely and everyone was given the same template.
The new Honor system was – and still is – terrible.
Having to earn your PvP talents by grinding PvP was a bad design decision.
Having to reset your Honor progress in order to gain a Prestige level, was an even worse design decision.
Having a PvP-specific talent system in the first place is a terrible design decision. It created a weird contrast between playing your character in a PvE setting where it had access to all its legendary effects, trinkets, set bonuses and what not, and then a PvP setting where none of that was functional, but you had a bunch of new talents to choose from.
The fact that Blizzard have iterated and changed the Honor system for BfA is testament to the fact that it wasn’t a well-designed system in Legion.
So those systems – template system, gear nullification system, and Honor system – were absolutely terrible in my opinion. They might have held the hope of something really amazing, but none of them actually delivered upon that.
The template system just put characters into boxes.
The gear nullification system removed all sense of progression, reward, and customization.
And the Honor system added grinding to a talent system that ultimately failed to address any class design issues in PvP, despite being made specifically for PvP.
In conclusion…
Ultimately the content additions were acceptable, but the systems design was a complete failure, and it all failed to deliver on what it promised, and apart from the Honor system (which has been heavily modified since), then none of it exists in the game today. So it was an experiment that ultimately amounted to a complete waste of development effort.
You can compare Legion to an expansion like Mists of Pandaria, which also didn’t introduce much in terms of new PvP content (3 new battlegrounds, 2 new Arena maps). But at least Mists of Pandaria didn’t screw up the entire Systems Design, but mainly kept things the way they were, because you don’t need to try and fix something that isn’t broken. And Mists of Pandaria ended up as a solid PvP expansion because of that. It might not have introduced much new, but it didn’t screw up anything that already existed. Legion did.
Is it also then fair to say that, aside from no longer having to unlock pvp talents, BFA hasn’t done much of anything in regards to fixing the problems legion created? It just has done a better job adding a wider variety of interesting content.
I would definitely argue that BfA has addressed a lot of the terrible systems design introduced in Legion, because it simply doesn’t exist anymore.
There’s no template system today.
There’s no gear nullification.
And the Honor is heavily re-designed and diminished in its effect on the game.
Then it’s fair criticism to say that BfA’s systems design might be better than what existed in Legion, but that doesn’t mean it’s as good as what existed before Legion.
So again the lesson is probably that Blizzard shouldn’t try to fix something that isn’t broken, because it just creates a long term mess that takes several expansions to address completely.
And when everything eventually gets cleaned up, lo and behold if the PvP systems design won’t end up right back where it started. I for one wouldn’t be surprised.
Then this is the only real sticking point between you and the others here. I hated templates as much as you, probably, but I don’t view what we have currently as a step up. It’s more of an equally terrible sidestep, that has the potential to step forward eventually.