Just please remove it because obviously some people do not respect other people’s keys.
I mean why, why leave when you’re doing good time and the group is good and mess up someone’s key…just why!?
Or better yet why join if you’re going to leave!?
Frustration at it’s best.
Key depletion is necessary as long as m+ pugs exist.
Yeah, no. Just no.
Key depletion is a good thing. Else you can push up any key by just taking 20 hours per key and stuff.
Or maybe even partial lockouts or something.
But why is it okay to do that in raids but not in M+? when you wipe on a boss you just rez, buff up, and go again, you don’t go back a boss.
What if someone has an emergency mid run?
Because raids have a weekly lockout, while M+ does not.
Stuff happens, you deal with it. How often do emergencies happen in a key?
I mean. If everything went fine someone wont just leave unless some emergency happes, right?
People that wana play but all of suden have some kind of emergency, like real life stuff, poweroutage or so…
Also, big no, key depletes are part of m+
Why not give M+ like a 3 day lockout then, or 3 tries per key before depletion, or weekly even. I mean you can still time the key but you won’t get loot. I mean let’s be honest here no one does M+ for gear these days from the instance itself.
Stuff happens i understand, but why should the key holder suffer for it individually?
Maybe make everyone’s key deplete then so no one will take it lightly.
Because that would majorly suck. We already have low drop rates, making it worse doesn’t help.
The Valor system coming in 9.0.5 is supposed to help with that. It won’t be perfect, but it’ll be an improvement over the status quo, and make end of dungeon drops a bit less useless.
Whoever assembled the group is responsible for it. You don’t punish random people for emergencies. You made the group, you take the risks too.
Yeah, no. 99% of the time, leaving is a consequence of a ruined key, rather than the cause.
If someone wants to dedicate 20 hours to that, how is it a problem? We have boosting all over the place which gives players a completed 15 key in 30 min for a couple bucks. I dont think youll have to worry about someone dedicating 20h just to get a key up. WTH.
“Oh guys, we didn’t do this pull perfectly. Lets try again!”
Not depleting a key would encourage retrying, which wastes everyone’s time way more than depleting.
Isn’t that what you do in raids? and if people wanna leave you’ll just find a replacement and try again.
Again, raids and M+ are different beasts. You have a weekly lockout for raids, you don’t for M+ (and really shouldn’t).
They probably saw otherwise then.
It really wouldn’t, because it’s a useless metric without context. You don’t know why someone left. Did they spend 20 minutes on the first 5 packs? Is the only person interrupting the resto druid with Typhoon?
What helps people find like minded players is… drumroll socialising. Had a good run? Add them to your friend list, and ask them next time you want to do a key. Join a guild or a community on top. There, you have like minded players, got rid of leavers, and improved party performance by an order of magnitude in one simple step.
I’m talking about this, and not if it has a lockout or not. Obviously your issue is people trying over and over again which is a personal choice.
This can easily get cheesed btw if people wanted to do it, you’ll just find another 2, 3, or 4 other players with the same key and every time you fail on one, queue the next person’s key.
I think this would be fair but there are possibilities of abusing the system. Like endlessly resetting dungeon. Or kicking people just because and getting new group to kick people at last boss again.
The problem is when people insist on retrying because it’s not a 2-chest. That’s a colossal waste of time for the rest of the party who just want to time it. Key’s not gonna be a 2-chest? Keyholder just leaves to retry the same key, on the same level, with a different group.
No, thanks.
Then make more friends. I started doing this at the start of SL, and the only time I don’t have people to play with is like 3am.
…and noone’s ever going to look through that.
This problem is player-created and barely exists to begin with.
If you experience people leaving your key more than once or twice per M+ season then you are most likely the problem.
Why ? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.
That makes no sense either.
Key depletion is when you fail the key and its rank gets decreased. You cannot push keys by failing. You still have to complete in time to push keys. So… Taking 20h per key doesn’t sound a very good tactic to push keys.
And? How is that related to key depletion ? If you’re scared that players may get higher gear more quickly, then you can just decrease the amount of loot instead…
So… Let’s see how that works here. You attempt a key and you fail it, it gets depleted. Maybe that key is now sitting there in your bags until next week. Maybe you spend time to push it back to where it was. If the latter case, there’s a good probability that you already master that lower rank, so you’re effectively spending time, learning nothing new, experimenting nothing new (pretty much the definition of wasting time) in order to be able to retry what you struggle with… And maybe fail at it again, so you can waste time again on the lower rank.
vs.
the key does not deplete. You fail your pull or whatever, it was not perfect as you wanted, you retry immediately. No time wasted.
So… I think you’re just saying stuff in that thread just because you started with this idea that key depletion is a good thing. And now you’re stuck with that, because you’re the kind of stubborn dude, so you just say random bad arguments, in hope that some of them will hit.
Ok, there’s a very nice thing that game theory tells to us about how you build trust. And that’s all about having interactions with people so you can see how they behave. But that also has a lot to do with repeated interactions with the same people.
Friend list in world of warcraft are limited in size and not suited to be used as some kind of pool of potentially good players but I still need to have more interactions with them to decide.
What would work instead is having the possibility to retry keys at the same level, in other words: not-depleting keys. Some players would certainly create groups for the sole purpose of trying routes, etc, if the keys did not deplete. And that would allow communities to form in a much natural way.
Your drumroll socializing stunt is an insult, tbh. You’re just throwing a “well, you can socialize instead of behaving like the anti-socials you are”. I think most players who read you would understand this statement like this (solely because of that drumroll).
Now, in addition to sound stubborn, you sound like that kind of player who think he’s better at everything than everyone.
What’s the point of these behaviors ?
Why would you endlessly reset a dungeon ? It serve no purpose except trolling. That’s a different behavior than the “trying routes behavior” I described earlier. Here, you’re endlessly reset the dungeon. The loot is at the end, the key rank increase at the end. If you reset before the end, you achieve nothing, here (except if you’re trying new routes, but that’s a different behavior).
Kicking people just because and getting new group to kick people at last boss again ?.. If you kick someone, you can’t invite another one unless you reset the dungeon. So this behavior is the same as “endlessly resetting dungeon”. Again, why would anyone do that ?
And if someone for some reason would do that, it’s pretty obvious that this could be flagged rather quickly… So what ?
Then, remove the 2/3-chest feature, if that’s something that scares you.
But tbh, that behavior, willing to reset because the extra-chest is failed, is pretty similar, in toxicity, to just leaving the key because it’s not in time. It’s just a bit less toxic.
Why is it similar, I say ?
Because in a group, if everyone (or majority) is willing to reset because it’s not a 2-chest, that’s up to them… What’s the problem here ? It’s similar to when majority want to deplete the key because it’s not in time.
Then, if a single dude wants to reset because it’s not a 2-chest, and others do not. Obviously, what can happen is the dude who want to reset either:
In the first case, everything’s fine.
In the second case, the dude can be blacklisted as we already do with key leavers and other toxic people.
So… What’s the problem ? At worst it’s not worse than what we have right now. And at best, it’s much better.
I really don’t like that kind of comment. It’s very unconsiderate and unkind to other players. Not because they are unable to make friends or more friends. But because you’re implying they are unable to or haven’t done it.
Still waiting for a well constructed and more thoughful arguments against removing key depletion.
But I’m leaving for now, gonna watch some episodes of clone wars, then I come back, ok ?
There has to be some stake involved in a key, otherwise key owner would just spam the key until one group times it, this way he is incentivized to try to make as best group as possible.
What limit? The ignore list is severely limited, yes, but the friend list, as far as I see, is not. At least I haven’t run into a limit, and I have a ton of people on there. I also use an addon that lets me arrange my friend list into categories, which makes it easier to do trust levels and the like.
Mind you, in my experience, if one run goes smooth with someone, chances are, future runs will too (or if not, not due to their fault).
Never have and never will use my own key… so what point would this serve even?