Can we please have non-binary gender option?

[Robotrix-silvermoon]

I thought Juny is over.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

@Frizzle-defias-brotherhood

“Kravurox, ender of worlds, bringer of darkness”

I like this one

[Tankilix-terrordar]

@Popgligor-magtheridon

It’s not just man or woman

I never quite understood that concept. Is it not man or woman, because some people don’t act like the stereotypical male or female in the eyes of society?
If so, shouldn’t those gender stereotypes and norms be what people should fight, rather than the concept of gender?

Am I less of a male because I don’t act like Duke Nuke’em?

Is my girlfriend less of a female because she doesn’t act like Barbie?

In my native language, the words for gender and sex are interchangeable, which is why I initially, and still sometimes, have issues grasping the concept.

What is it we’re fighting for in these situations?

Are we fighting so that every person between the male and female spectrum gets their own assigned gender and rather than 2 genders we end up with 40? What if 40 isn’t enough? 400? 4000? Roughly 7 billion?

I feel like putting a label on everything is what brought us here. Why should putting more labels on everything help?

I don’t identify with the 50s definition of what “makes a man”. I don’t identify with nowadays definition of what “makes a man”. In fact, being manly is often an equivalent to being a douche, so why would I attempt to be “manly”?

Why does my sexuality matter, at all, in defining my gender?

I don’t fit societys picture of a “man”, whatever that is to begin with.
I cry during Lion’s King when Simba tries to wake up his father.
My two biggest dreams in life are finding the person I love and marrying her and making the world a better place. Ridiculous, I know.
I enjoy acting, LARPing, making music, drawing, I’m more into musicals than most people are.

Now if you said somebody, there’s this “man”, when talking about me, sure as hell it isn’t going to set whatever picture I am into their mind, but why is it supposed to?

Why would a single word, or two, or a combination out of a few, describe me, or my sexuality, or any person?

This fight against gender that is currently happening is still something I don’t understand. Why fight for more genders, when more genders aren’t going to bring anything valuable to the table?

Will the word “demigender” accurately describe every person that identifies with this word?

Will the word “genderfluid” “genderqueer” “gendervague” or whatever you wanna use do that?

I just don’t get why the solution to fixing the labeling of people based on their gender is tearing the label into a bunch of smaller labels to stick on people rather than to stop sticking labels on people?

And it’s not that I don’t support this cause, trust me, I’m a huge advocate for basically anything that helps people feel better in this relatively miserable world we live in, as long as it doesn’t directly or indirectly harm them or others.

If getting called “They” rather than “he” or “she” makes a person less depressed, that’s a giant win in my book, I just don’t understand why this fight, that is desperately, over decades, trying to get rid of those labels that were put on certain communites, by incredibly hateful people, has now stopped to get rid of the labels and is attempting to create even more labels.

I work as an EMT, when I ask somebody for their gender, I ask for their biological sex, not whatever people identify as, because the biological sex contains relevant medical information.

I’m sure you’ve heard about trans men getting ovary cancer or similar stories. There’s less obvious things, such as Parkinson’s or Gout, which occure more often in men than women, thus some symptoms will be checked sooner, others later, than other symptoms, depending on the biological sex of the person.

What I’m saying is, you’re fighting a good fight, but you’re fighting it at the wrong border. You’re fighting it at a border where it can do just as much harm as it can do good.

I imagine my mother telling me “Oh you’re not a boy, you don’t act like one!” and I frankly find that picture horrible.

Sure, it’s most likely an overdramatization of how one such conversation would go, but I can’t help but believe that telling people they’re neither male nor female, and why? Because they don’t fit in societies standards of a male or female of all things, can be very hurtful to them, or sometimes create beliefs that weren’t there before, especially when talking to children or teenagers.

I’m sorry for rambling on, these are simply questions I’ve always wanted to ask and while I probably could’ve actively looked for people to talk to about these things, I never did, which is where you come in.

Honestly, all I want to is understand these things better, because while I’m always up to fight the good fight, I simply have issues understanding what exactly it is people are fighting, why and most importantly, how winning the fight would make things better.

[Etilerpasif-dreadmist]

@Mirianea-outland

Only 2…all derogations are caused by some problems etc. etc. but healthy human have one from 2 genders.

My friend this is a very wrong (in my opinion) conclusion. You can not say i am being a non-binary person means i am not healthy, or i had problems etc etc. I did not choose this, i was born and this is who i am, how i feel.

[Bolg-quelthalas]

@Athena-stormscale

This guy is trolling.
Why else do you think he is posting on an classic alt? He is saying that he wants to broadcast that he is non-binary so he should not be scared of making a post on his main to say that he is non-binary but he is still posting on a classic alt… because he is trolling.

Testify!..

[Etilerpasif-dreadmist]

@Wormwood-aszune

I am actually fully statemented and diagnosed classic dyslexic. you might want to be careful how you call me out I may just become extremely offended for no good reason because you called me out for my disability.

Or I could just ignore your bigotry because you find my inability to spell correctly unpalatable.

Just like I find it unpalatable that people believe they are a boy in the morning and a girl in the evening. And I genuinely believe that in most cases this gender fluid fad is people with mental health problems and it should be challenging and not nurtured.

I am sorry if that offends you.

I really respect your opinion, i just wanted to clarify one thing. We ( lgbt people) do not think we are a boy in the morning and we got moody later in the day we become a girl. We were born this way, i am trapped in a male body and i did not choose this. This is not a sickness that needs to be treated, or not a bad thing that makes people pity us, We are real, we are normal just like you guys.

[Thrapachino-silvermoon]

whilst in real life non binary might be a thing, it doesn’t have to be in wow, not because of a gender biased just because wow is not a part of real life. This is a fantasy world and it has it’s social constructs already in place no need to bring gender/political views into a game, unless its a new game where this it already built in from the start.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

i did not choose this.

Nobody chose anything. We are who we are. That’s life.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

i am trapped in a male body

See this is a concept that fascinates me whenever somebody brings that up because the same people who say things like these also often are the same people who claim that gender is a social construct, and that being a man or a woman is not defined by what society defines to be male or female traits.

So for those same people to then also go and say that they are a ‘man’ trapped in a ‘woman’‘s body or vise-versa means that they do in fact subscribe to what society defines to be male or female traits and that going against the norm means that you are less of a man or woman than you are supposed to be by societies’ standards.

“I do not share what are believed to be manly traits, thus inside, I must not actually be a man.”

The only situation that I can think of in where this is not the case is if the reason that you believe that you are a woman trapped in a man’s body is because your brain is wired like a woman’s brain because it’s telling you that you should be menstruating or be performing other biological functions that only women can perform in which case it would actually be a psychological defect of some kind.

So pray explain to me why it is that you believe that you are a woman in a man’s body?

I am genuinely interested.

[Mirianea-outland]

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

@Mirianea-outland

Only 2…all derogations are caused by some problems etc. etc. but healthy human have one from 2 genders.

My friend this is a very wrong (in my opinion) conclusion. You can not say i am being a non-binary person means i am not healthy, or i had problems etc etc. I did not choose this, i was born and this is who i am, how i feel.

This what i said have nothing to do with non binary person. I answering some guy who think it’s biologically more then 2 genders. I guess he trolling me but still…

For me you can call yourself whatever you want. We can’t choice our gender anyway.

[Etilerpasif-dreadmist]

@Razien-quelthalas

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

i did not choose this.

Nobody chose anything. We are who we are. That’s life.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

i am trapped in a male body

See this is a concept that fascinates me whenever somebody brings that up because the same people who say things like these also often are the same people who claim that gender is a social construct, and that being a man or a woman is not defined by what society defines to be male or female traits.

So for those same people to then also go and say that they are a ‘man’ trapped in a ‘woman’‘s body or vise-versa means that they do in fact subscribe to what society defines to be male or female traits and that going against the norm means that you are less of a man or woman than you are supposed to be by societies’ standards.

“I do not share what are believed to be manly traits, thus inside, I must not actually be a man.”

The only situation that I can think of in where this is not the case is if the reason that you believe that you are a woman trapped in a man’s body is because your brain is wired like a woman’s brain because it’s telling you that you should be menstruating or be performing other biological functions that only women can perform in which case it would actually be a psychological defect of some kind.

So pray explain to me why it is that you believe that you are a woman in a man’s body?

I am genuinely interested.

I was born as a male, with male genitals so the doctor said, ‘‘its a boy!’’ to my mother. As i grew up tho, things have started to change. All my other male friends were into boys stuff i was into girls, wanted to play with girls, i felt girls are closer to me than boys. More i grew up i started to realize that i am not attracted to females sexually, but i am attracted to males, i want to be with them sexually not with females, tho i looked like a man, male genitals, beard, muscular compared to females. That is why i say i am a female inside, but trapped in a male body.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

I was born as a male, with male genitals so the doctor said, ‘‘its a boy!’’

Because you are a boy. He was speaking of your biology, not your personality.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

As i grew up tho, things have started to change. All my other male friends were into boys stuff i was into girls, wanted to play with girls, i felt girls are closer to me than boys.

That doesn’t mean YOU are a girl. All that it means is that you enjoy the company of women more than that of men, as well as the activities and interests that may come with that.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

More i grew up i started to realize that i am not attracted to females sexually, but i am attracted to males

That’s called being a homosexual which is not only completely normal, it also only speaks to your sexuality. Not to your gender/sex.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

tho i looked like a man, male genitals, beard, muscular compared to females.

Yeah – you look like that because you ARE biologically a man.

All that you mentioned does not make you any less of a man than any other man.

It only means that your interests and attractions are different than those of what society deems to be the generic heterosexual man but again – that does not make you LESS of a man.

[Charctic-silvermoon]

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

I was born as a male, with male genitals so the doctor said, ‘‘its a boy!’’ to my mother.

That’s because of your external traits that the doctor could see pointed to the highest likelihood of what your biological sex is. Society typically calls young biological males “boys”. None of this was done to do any wrong by you.

I really resent the current messages from some trans and non-binary folks on how doctors define the sex of a child at birth, its not assigning a gender but simply categorising the biological sex of a child which can also help with medical treatment throughout their lives. Its up to the parent after that on how they decide to raise their child. Somone who identifies as non-binary or trans still have to have their biology taken into account for things like medical issues, treatments needed can sometimes differ depending on a person’s biological sex.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

All my other male friends were into boys stuff i was into girls, wanted to play with girls, i felt girls are closer to me than boys. More i grew up i started to realize that i am not attracted to females sexually, but i am attracted to males, i want to be with them sexually not with females, tho i looked like a man, male genitals, beard, muscular compared to females. That is why i say i am a female inside, but trapped in a male body.

To me this sounds like you might have some more to work through although a few forum posts isn’t enough to go on.

Its like you’re associating being attracted to men as being something that means that you should have been female. Honestly you don’t sound too sure of what you are and I’d politely advise that you seek some professional help from someone well versed in counselling these sorts of things.

[Telestrian-argent-dawn]

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

@Razien-quelthalas

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

i did not choose this.

Nobody chose anything. We are who we are. That’s life.

@Etilerpasif-dreadmist

i am trapped in a male body

See this is a concept that fascinates me whenever somebody brings that up because the same people who say things like these also often are the same people who claim that gender is a social construct, and that being a man or a woman is not defined by what society defines to be male or female traits.

So for those same people to then also go and say that they are a ‘man’ trapped in a ‘woman’‘s body or vise-versa means that they do in fact subscribe to what society defines to be male or female traits and that going against the norm means that you are less of a man or woman than you are supposed to be by societies’ standards.

“I do not share what are believed to be manly traits, thus inside, I must not actually be a man.”

The only situation that I can think of in where this is not the case is if the reason that you believe that you are a woman trapped in a man’s body is because your brain is wired like a woman’s brain because it’s telling you that you should be menstruating or be performing other biological functions that only women can perform in which case it would actually be a psychological defect of some kind.

So pray explain to me why it is that you believe that you are a woman in a man’s body?

I am genuinely interested.

I was born as a male, with male genitals so the doctor said, ‘‘its a boy!’’ to my mother. As i grew up tho, things have started to change. All my other male friends were into boys stuff i was into girls, wanted to play with girls, i felt girls are closer to me than boys. More i grew up i started to realize that i am not attracted to females sexually, but i am attracted to males, i want to be with them sexually not with females, tho i looked like a man, male genitals, beard, muscular compared to females. That is why i say i am a female inside, but trapped in a male body.

With respect, I think your explanation here serves to show why this debate is so confusing for onlookers. Thank you for sharing it.

I am biologically male. I have a wife and have fathered children. Socially speaking I’m not very comfortable in traditional “masculine “ environments. I have no stereotypical male interests. Many of my activities including my work, tend to be within traditionally “feminine “ spheres. For example I am the primary caregiver for our children, I prefer to be. I prefer to do all the domestic activities in our house and I dislike “heavy lifting” tasks. I don’t understand what excites people about cars or machines at all. I find most competitive sports boring and I dislike being aggressive.

I have never considered myself anything other than a man. I simply don’t conform to the stereotypical idea of what a man is. So long as that works for me and my wife, hunky dory.
So I guess I don’t understand how non occupying these social niches can make one believe they’re not meant to be some sex, in a biological level. I’d argue it’s socially formed. Ie I grew up in an environment that didn’t tell me I should be those things to be a man.

I’d be terribly offended if someone tried to advise me I’m “actually “ not a man because of this, because I’ve never ever questioned my identity in that way and it’s something I’ve always felt completely comfortable with.

The point of social advancements in the late 20th century was so that we stop stereotyping sexes by such behaviour. To go back to “this is for men and this is for women” for me would be a regression.

[Oyi-argent-dawn]

If his gameplay quality is affected by lack of made up gender roles, he’s (or whatever) probably already living a life mostly made out of let downs.

[Etilerpasif-dreadmist]

@Oyi-argent-dawn

If his gameplay quality is affected by lack of made up gender roles, he’s (or whatever) probably already living a life mostly made out of let downs.

Hmm, id say false assumptions my friend.

[Pickpawkit-argent-dawn]

@Kretías-tarren-mill

147: Not a single Transphobic remark. What i said is a scientific stance. XXYY syndrome is what its called. As is it that we only understand a fraction of our Brain at this point. Qoute 3 of said post is also not talking about it. It discusses the sex of a character and how it willingly ignored the gender question as that is something everyone can decide for themself.

https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-02/mcog-gvp020420.php

@Kretías-tarren-mill

Qoute 4 i have stated that the odds of you getting trolled for outing yourself in pugs is highly likely going to happen and that a Guild is a much safer place for that to happen and provided an example

Right, so you’re basically telling people to ‘stay in the closet’ which is a stance generally held by those with heteronormativity and transphobic views.

@Kretías-tarren-mill

Qoute 5 is about Sexual expression. Still not transphobic. It also has no place in this game.

Non-binary, and other genders/sex’s indeed has a place in this game. Unless you think relationships in this game already don’t exist?

@Kretías-tarren-mill

Qoute 7 is stating that i dont want it here as i can see it being abused given the mentality of the average player.

Anything can be abused, including these forums - and your posts… So are you going to put those in the closet too?

@Kretías-tarren-mill

152: Not one transphobic comment. Not even talking about it. Also my first comment towards you.

Yes there was.

@Kretías-tarren-mill

174: Included no remark from me in this regard. It wasnt even talking about this subject.

yes it was.

Happy since you wanted me to reply to you so much you posted about it in a completely different thread?

[Daestra-turalyon]

Kretías is the least transphobic person out there i know that for a fact she is very open minded and supportive in her views for LBQT+ please never call her that .
You two can argue all you like but i am sorry that is just plain wrong to say about her .

[Kretías-tarren-mill]

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-02/mcog-gvp020420.php

Has quite literally nothing to do with what i said. I have even pointed out about what i was speaking about specifically. The XXYY syndrome. Also called 48,XXYY or 48,XXYY Syndrome.

Not a transphobic remark still.

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

Right, so you’re basically telling people to ‘stay in the closet’ which is a stance generally held by those with heteronormativity and transphobic views.

No i havent. I have said the odds of you getting trolled for doing that in pugs in this game given the nature of this playerbase is going to be very highly likely ending up in you getting trolled. So you would be way better off to first do that if you want to in your own Guild as its a way better safe zone for oneself as the people already know you as a person. Nothing is stopping you from doing it afterwards in pugs. I advise of not using it as ones first “base”

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

Non-binary, and other genders/sex’s indeed has a place in this game. Unless you think relationships in this game already don’t exist?

Has nothing to do with what i said and still not transphobic. You can already apply them yourself as nothing is stopping you from applying any gender that fits to your character. The only thing you select at the character selection screen is the biological sex.

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

Anything can be abused, including these forums - and your posts… So are you going to put those in the closet too?

Strawman.

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

Yes there was.

Nope there wasnt.

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

yes it was.

No it wasnt.

@Pickpawkit-argent-dawn

Happy since you wanted me to reply to you so much you posted about it in a completely different thread?

Baseless assumptions. Youre not that important as otherwise i would have responded in the other thread after your reply instead of ignoring it as stated.

[Nigom-turalyon]

why there no wheelchairs in this game, I wanna see my people represent

[Shumensko-azjolnerub (Shumensko)]

There are, ask every pala out there.