They have received multiple nerfed between 10.0.5 and 10.0.7, so between the previous tiering moment and the current one.
You are, what’s the word, erm… wrong !
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Rogue was with DF release very broken and remained S-tier until the end of 10.0.5. And no matter what, in my honest opinion without any hate, Outlaw in SL season 4 was as broken as Ret is right now.
Ret actually enables a lot of classes. Sure, most meta comps are with a Ret currently, but Ret basically works in any variation currently.
Beside the obvious ones with War, WW, Demo and Hunt you also have Ret+Destro, Ret+Boomy, Ret+Frost Mage, Ret+Feral, Ret+Enhance, Ret+DH, etc. Even Ret+DK though DK seems to be C tier currently.
It mostly has become a class you can combine with anything and get a comp as strong as RMX usually. So basically what Rogue has been in the past decade.
The reason therefor is not Ret though. Rshaman would be meta, no matter of how strong Ret is. Fistweaver might benefit a lot from it, but would shine in any good melee cleave.
The judgement change is a good nerf that was indeed needed. Brainless aoe dispels are definitely something this game shouldn’t have, as it destroys randomly any setup. That been said though, brainless spam cc to generate randomly setups is as weird as those dispels! When RMX can have the gaspedal down all game long and don’t have to kite/run at all, it’s not any better!!!
That’s why I don’t get why frostnova, dragon’s breath and cheap shot aren’t reduced in duration, when they basically are going to reduce everything else. They should finally stop handling this class or this comp with kid gloves in my opinion.
Also do I think that the indirect fear buff is questionable. Frost Mage + Destro/Demo and something that really nobody enjoys to play against.
They haven’t received a nerf with 10.0.7 and were at the end of 10.0.5 still S tier. So
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I like you stopped responding to me who provided factual data that this statement is incorrect, and now try to gaslight other people in the same thread.
People have already debunked and explained to you why you are wrong. One can just go back a couple of posts above and read good and well explained reasons as to why you are in the wrong. It might be that you dont remember what has been written just 2 posts ago, but the conversation is logged here on the internet, so it is pretty easy to just scroll up and read pretty reasonable and well explained arguments as to why exactly you are wrong about the stuff you write.
We get it, you dont like rogues and mages, but your personal hatred towards these two classes does not change the plethora of links and resources various people have provided to prove you wrong, and they are easily found by just scrolling up in this conversation.
Actually, according to those “R1 tierlist makers” we are talking about so much in this thread, it had fallen to A tier after receiving so many nerfs. But that wouldn’t be something you’d keep informed of, as Rogue can’t not be S in your mind no matter its state even when the majority of the community with actual experience agree about it - which is, in truth, a very stupid way of thinking since a class can always be made bad no matter what.
And then, with 10.0.7, as we already said, it dropped further due to its natural predators becoming stronger. So while Rogue number values weren’t changed themselves, the now fare worse into their environment and so, they drop. Not hard to grasp.
Again, if the natural predator of species X becomes stronger, X becomes more of a prey in its environnement despite still being the same. It is just killed more. And so it drops in representation. Its how nature has worked forever, and because games are played by humans who mimic this by picking the newly OP classes that prey on others everytime they are buffed, it works the same.
ROGUE
Subtlety
Dark Shadow effectiveness reduced by 20% in PvP combat.
Danse Macabre effectiveness reduced by 33% in PvP combat.
Perforated Veins effectiveness reduced by 25% in PvP combat.
Gloomblade damage increased by 20% in PvP combat.
Backstab damage increased by 20% in PvP combat.
You said rogues, not Assa. These are the 10.0.7 nerfs. Assa was nerfed in nearly every change up until they were broken, of course, and other direct counters being buffed affects them in the meta. I’d go as far as saying for the average player, rogue is C tier right now. Any of the specs. Because you need to be very aware of the whole game to make serious contribution to landing kills.
But he did, the chart shows the whole season! This guy literally buried you, have some self-respect and admit that you had the statistics wrong. You can’t come back from this. It’s just awkward at this point.
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Wow, I just can’t anymore. You claimed earlier that 90% of rogues played RMX, which basically indicates, according to you, that they were locked to a single comp. You also say Ret can be combined with anything, like what Rogue has been in the past decade…? I’ll leave this kind of loose for you to think on.
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They did, doesn’t change the fact that rogue was a filler class you could have stacked up with many classes. Its the same with Ret now. Best results you will have probably with Arms, but many other comps are viable too with Ret.
I don’t know about your world, but mine isn’t only black and white!
We were obviously talking about the S tier Rogue spec Assassination, not Subtlety.
He did not. This season isn’t BfA SL season 4!
And there is purely a difference between all/7 days/14 days which either means that barely anyone played 3s before 10.0.7, so the meta shift actually has revived an otherwise dead game mode because Ret before 10.0.7 was obviously not popular, or that [all] doesn’t really show season stats.
It may be that Warr is broken, but you’re not, resulting in you not being weak only because you play broken class.
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Yes, but he linked several charts. Now you’re referencing one, maybe on purpose? The recent activity was backed up with an argument, you know.
Ah, and the link slightly bugs but you can press the arrow down “Archive” button. You’re so in denial that I thought you blatantly discarded the charts, not that you can’t actually navigate a website. Hehe.
[arenamate(.)net/representation-charts/archive/sl-s4] you can also edit the link replacing s4 with s3 and so on.
And how many of them were related to SL S4 which I asked for, because he used the linked charts to tell me, that SL S4 outlaw rogue wasn’t on the level of Ret right now.
I checked it on the side myself and when you would do the same you would realize that
https://drustvar.com/leaderboard/stats/eu/3v3?top=1000
looks basically the same for
- All
- Last 7 Days
- Last 14 Days
in terms of Arms and Ret. So do you want to tell me, that Ret was already that popular before the recent patch? Because if not there are 2 possible scenarios of why “All” looks like the other both.
Either “All” isn’t a reference for the whole season but only for the patch OR 3s was basically dead before the recent patch so only the last two weeks brought some movement into the ladder.
That’s just logical wouldn’t you agree?
Using these charts to further your argument doesn’t work. It’s contradictory. Play with them a bit and you’ll see. People have provided you a bunch of info, I’ve tried to give you some insights into the class that you don’t seem to understand, namely rogue and Nexintus buried you. I think there’s no reaching through and it’s getting cringe that we all were trolled for so long. Happy Easter!
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Of course it does, you just don’t like the result and because you don’t find another reason why all 3 charts look basically the same in terms of Ret and Arms and you can’t claim that Ret was popular before 10.0.7 you’re grasping for the last straw telling me that I can’t use the charts like that.
For you too. 
realistically atm, rogues are not in the greatest position, and its gonna get much worse in S2.
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I only play when I am bored, and I legit quit 4 out of 5 of my characters after new patch hit lmao.
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Except we are several people who agree and you keep claiming we are all wrong, despite us providing tons of external data that highlights our points.
Ive said it once and I will say it again. You either rank incredibly low on metacognition (thus low on IQ since metacognition is proportionally correlated to IQ) or you must be a narcissist to be so full of yourself.
all of them need nerfs and demo too
it wasn’t nothing has ever been on the level ret is now demo isnt far behind though
Thank god rmp or rogs dominated pvp for 3 decades.
Now its time for rmp to be awful 3 decades.
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as a healer, fighting RMP is so annoying, because it feel like turn based game, where they have their go (usually more often than your team, with easier and longer control) and then they try to hide while you try to do damage (usually succesfuly, or they simply trade one of many defs or spam CC like poly on dps to survive)…’
so essentialy they’re immortal and they try to one shot you often, eventually possibly succeeeding…
there’s never been more frustrating thing to fight against… I honestly will rather face Rets in their current state for 3 decades than RMP
RMP design is so broken, it’s unbelievable
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RMP shouldnt be as strong next season though, but the question also comes if they are rly going to let Cheap shot still be 4 sec stun while they reduced duration on majority of CCs…