demo is just as broken as ret and the top players know it. both specs need nerfing to the ground
Still waiting you to respond to this:
Also might as well on this: https://imgur.com/a/75EdJPr
just because most are ret does not mean demo isnt as busted its crazy op with the insane damage and insane micro cc it has while also being like a tank. as i said i hope both get nerfed to the gound
According to who? So just because you think that ret is as broken as demo it is so?
So did I. We are talking here about Demo being as OP as ret. I provided reasonable argument why it isn’t. Your argument is “Just trust me bro”.
Same goes for you. You claim the opposite? Deliver proof!
So you claim its rng of what ret+arms team win, as it barely requires any coordination so most higher rated teams should be capable of coordinate it perfectly?
There won’t be a problem if they implement a decay system, like in any other comp game. Cowards sitting their rating after their op spec is nerfed will have to play the game in order to get rewards. This will mix the ladder and there will be diversity in comps. Not the fotm fiesta we are seeing right now. Simple solution.
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No. Where did you read RNG? I never mentioned it. Look, its pretty simple to understand. If the hps is 20 of most healers and the dps is 20 for most classes, then it is all the other tools such as cc that dominates, but if you take 2 classes and give them 30 dps, then the damage throughput alone can carry the win. Shouldnt be a hard concept to grasp.
Do you have the memory span of a goldfish? I linked a SkillCapped video of the most recent tier list. Sounds like cognitive dissonance at this point.
It is, but you still don’t understand it.
Zugzug is mostly based on defense gameplay. It’s not hard to get 2 people press stun on different people and use burst cds at the same time. Especially these days doing damage is a 3 button fiesta for absolute most specs. What makes the difference is the defense gameplay and how they use their utility spells as much as gap closer.
Setup based comps usually don’t have to think about defensive gameplay that much, as their setups are both. Offense as defense!
Haven’t you seen the last AWC of SL? How Whaazz, Meh and Raiku played? Gaspedal down 110%. Mage can’t ever die, Rogue never has to drop the target and play defensively. It was all about hitting the target so long that the team is running out of options and can’t deal with the pressure anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAEOL6mHhA
Watch out for Kungarna vs Kawhi. One of the first games and the last game.
You can also count the rogues in the whole tournament and compare it with the number of rets, arms, etc. that have been played, if you still need evidence of how strong rogue has been in the past.
Skillcapped is well known for being biased rmx players. Something else to deliver? Something more reliable and objective?
Zugzug is defensive? It’s really not when warr’s and ret’s are hitting the hardest in the game and have an extra melee in FW to also pump with them, then can stay in and just play on top of you. “How they use their utlity spells as much as a gap closer” bro, like. EVERY MELEE is a ferrari rn, ret’s lack the mobility of others but all they do rn is press w as hard as they can because they are the terminator, melee don’t think anymore, they can go across the map in 0.2 seconds and play giga braindead. This meta is fun for nobody but, fw/ret/warr/bm. Warlocks 100% aren’t enjoying it because you can’t even touch another spec.
And whenever I pvp, if I see a ret/warr kill me, I don’t really notice whether they are good or not, I just see 300k dmg in 0.5 seconds. You notice a good rogue/mage player way before zugzug i press w and win ret/warr/bm. Also stop posting from a classic char bro, get your main on here.
Yes, because their defense gameplay is based around cooldowns, not kiting or cc. But as I have already said, compare it with setup comps from SL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAEOL6mHhA
Kungarna vs Kawhi for example.
Can you not include MM and Surv in your list of broken hunters, please and thank you.
He is able to read a lot of stuff that people never mention.
So what you are presenting here is misleading data. You see, the previous AWC data we had was from the period when Assassination Rogue was overtuned, specifically due to the 4-set bonus. This is not representative of the current state of the game. Next AWC is in a couple of days, lets see what the class distribution will be then. If rogue dominates again I will return here and gladly tell you that you are right about this part, but again, I think you and I disagree on one aspect fundamentally.
You see, you seem to value the top 1% experience as the best indication of balance, whereas I value the peak of the bell curve distribution of skill as that is the majority of the player base, and for me the democratic vote has more value than the top 1%. Will the PhD in economics make better financial decisions than the middle class? Probably. Does that mean the current financial landscape is fair and well balanced? Not at all, there are lots of dirty tricks that only well educated people know not to say yes to. Just because the top 1% knows not to do it, doesnt mean that it isnt wrong.
It is well known you say? Sounds like you found a reason to discard the evidence. This strategy is easy and you keep using it. I could also say the same thing. Make up one reason for another as to why whatever you present is just “well known” to be wrong. So this is either a deliberate strategy to undervalue any argument against you, OR it is cognitive dissonance in full effect.
Look. I know how this is going to go. If after the AWC rogues are dominating, I will say you were right and your gonna have a really good time, however I am quite sure from what I see here that if rogue ends up not dominating the next AWC, you will probably find a reason as to why this does not prove you wrong and that you are still right. I am certain of it.
So we could also stop wasting each others time and get to the conclusion; you have an opinion, and no evidence in the world can change that, because the evidence is well known to be wrong every time.
Mage just died and the healer goes “why didn’t you press Iceblock?” Mage answers “Because our setups are both offense and defense!”
Honestly, did you ever hear this? PvP is not this black and white.
Yeah, outcomped is a thing actually and should be as a consequence of diverse classes, because the most boring that could happen would be if classes were homogenized even more. However, that doesn’t mean that said comp who have more to press is always stronger than every other possible comp with less to press.
So you’d rather the answer be “I couldn’t possibly win” rather than “I could have avoided that and that and so on?” You don’t want to analyze your own gameplay and find flaws in it to improve, you’d rather just lose because you’re supposed to? If you can get setup on 10 times in two minutes you have to improve your ability to anticipate and stop go’s. I don’t get what good it does you “playing your character” in those moments if you’re not gonna make a difference to the outcome(being a loss) anyway.
Please go play any of the specs and show us the great success you’ll be having. It will do you good in knowing what to do against rogues too, as it seems you’re open season for go’s against them. Go to check-pvp and see the general skid Subtlety’s had across the board since the latest nerf aswell.
I don’t care about survival but I definitely will advocate for MM’s final nail in the coffin.
a class should not be shredding and one shooting someone from one end of an arena map to another.
Ah, so when SkillCapped says rogue is B Tier you see it as trustworthy source, because it supports your opinion. But what ever data the actual game is presenting you, its misleading data.
When basically every single tournament team plays with a rogue, sometimes even double rogue, you can argue like you want, its a guaranteed sign of how broken rogue was in that state.
Only non
would question that.
It is, because most of their customers are rogues and mages. So its obvious what meta they want! And since they have somewhat a SM range, they use that. So saying that rogue is B tier is somehow an indirect question to the devs to buff them.
Same for Whaazz and most other tournament players using their SM range weeks before an AWC by flaming every strong class on twitter, that doesn’t belong to their main comp.
Are you really surprised about that?! Then let me give you a hint. The most biased players in this game you should never ask about balance are the top players!! And now question who are the owner and the content creators of SkillCapped.
You see it from the wrong point of view. Even though RMX had so much control, they still had insane defensive cooldowns like iceblock etc. I mean, if their defense was so bad how comes they were dominating basically the past decade?
The devs rarely differentiate between PvE and PvP when it comes to damage. So the more options a comp has, the higher the skillcap becomes but also the higher the comp strength usually is.
That is exactly the point. The comp that got pruned the less was RMX. All other comps usually dropped quite a lot shutdown possibilities.
You often saw RMX players saying that they rely on enemies doing mistakes. And while that was and is true, they didn’t tell you the whole truth. When a RMX played perfectly they couldn’t have lost. They were sitting in the driver seat and had basically an AA in their pocket preflop.
Btw, you asked for evidence and since you like Skill Capped so much, here you see their tier list for 10.0.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmXsUFb_7k
Guess what spec was S Tier.
According to pvpleaderboard, take all pvp content accross EU and US for 2200+ rating, rogue is 5th lowest played class and mage is third lowest played class.
According to drustvar, take all pvp content accross EU and US for 2100+ rating, rogue is third highest played class, mage is lowest of all played class.
According to arenamaster, take 3v3 pvp content accross EU and US for 2200+ rating, rogue is 5th lowest played class and mage is lowest played class.
According to arenamate, take 3v3 pvp content accross EU and US for 2200+ rating, rogue is 3rd lowest played class and mage is 5th most played class.
SkillCapped made a video about the current patch. AWC results are from a previous patch. This concept should be pretty easy to understand, and so should be the logical fallacy of using results from a prior patch to argue the current state of the game
I agree that rogue WAS strong. But if you are not up to date, we are playing in 10.0.7 NOT 10.0.5. DH is also not OP anymore because we are NOT playing 10.0.0.