What you really notice is the difference between on voice and not on voice in pugs. Unless there’s people out there who can mind read.
Especially at higher keys. When I was in SD, and people actually took more than 3 yellow orbs at the 3rd boss on a 14, I was like, for real?
much much more.
precisley 20-30% overall to match the itl of drops in those dungeons with difficulty of dungeon itself.
No thanks, I like the challenge
Catering to the casuals isn’t my cup of tea
Unholy DKs, Windwalker monks, Rogues and more were also doing well during tyrannical in all honesty.
alot of classes are absolutely fine. tyrannicals just more punishing on groups which dont have high enough ST Among them while fortified u can do keys abit higher then u realistically should be doing.
given its getting buffed to 220, we dont need the dungeons lowered at all imho. although i do think they need to touch on the requirements of achievements to upgrade.
Effectively telling someone “u can upgrade to 220 from when u clear every dungeon on +15” is ridiculous effectively…
imho
+220 after clearing all +10s and +226 after all +15s. the currency is timegated… so its not “spammable” to get those upgrades.
you are not getting buffed to 220. by the time you clear +15 you will have 220+ in all or almost all slots from GV.
this new system is insanse and its abomination of mmorpg - doin content tuned for 220 in lower gear only to get 220 gear
It is going to buff our 200 - 207 gear to 213. Which helps a lot in timing 15’s earlier, with less vaults opened of 220 pieces. For our mains it probably gets a tiny bit too late in season 1. Allthough, i still got 8 items below 220. It is going to help in this season too 
people cannot time +10 in 215+ gear. there is no way in hell your average player will complete +15 in 213 gear.
this system is dead on arrival
now if this system was gating based on dungeons complete - instead dungeons completed in time - this is completly different matter. as not in time you can clear everything.
problem is timing the dungeon .
But they got also some vault items. It is both, isnt it? And some valor 213 items and 220+ vaults. Instead of only vault pieces what we currently have.
and by the time they will hit +15 they will not have some only almost all or all pieces from GV
making this system completly totaly pointless.
its disaster waiting to happen
What are you even talking about?
I cleared a set of +15 dungeons with 215 average ilvl.
M+ is HEAVILY skewed towards skill and not gear. Executing properly is far more important than having gear.
I got 16 gear pieces. That is 4 months gaining items from the vault. If not getting into slots i already have on high ilvl. At this moment i already had 2 weeks of wasted vaults. It takes forever to get all your slots filled with the vault.
I dont minde the challange, but I don’t like it that some weeks are so different in diffaculty then others. If we had 90% and 110% weeks ok but some weeks are like 40% easier then others and that is akward for me.
thats not entirely true here effectively.
None of the orginal People who earned that achievement had 220 in every slot via the GV, nor even the People Who came after them
the only people who will be 220 via GV By the end of that would be the SUPER Lucky and those that take a LONG time to get anyuwhere in M+… and also the likely ones to NEVER do a +15.
If ur gonna be a claim. u have to atleast look at when statistically people are obtaining this… ALOT of players who now have that achievement were likely around 208-212 ilevel when obtaining it in all honesty and prolly didnt have alot of 220 Pieces at all there.
Ur effectively claiming… NO one could get the +15 Achievement til 15 weeks into a Patch, which is over 4 months, and thats Simply Wrong at best, u may personally be above 220 when u unlock that achievement.
however… u can get through that content at anywhere 208 onwards realistically and its very possible, u’d have to push ur own keys but u can do it, and its 8 dungeons?.. u do more then that just to obtain ur 3 rewards
Also
thats a ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED FEATURE>
ur alts will auto obtain 220 Rewards from valor,. its a AMAZING Catch up system for tthose playing multiple classes.
the issue is, players Want instant gratification, Which i wont hate them for… we just came out of 2 expansions which delievered that in spades so its effectively what People are now expecting.
but to honestly beleive ur key pushers are 220 before they do +15s is Just hilarious… i did a +12 Last week at 160 ilevel Lmfao, mate no sane human are sitting around in low keys til we’re 220. forget waiting for gear… its not dropping theres no point
Just Push ur key with the intentionto continously Reach a +15. Like i was Taking my 194 Rogue into +14 through pugs, i took my DK through its entire experience… i dont do HC Dungeons, i dont Do LFRs unless i need a legendary from it, i barely touch M+0s.
I just go straight from 60, to buy 160 ilevel gearr, to M+ Spam heck it. i belive im 1?? Dungeon off from gettinghte +10 Achievement. and if i stop rerolling maybe i’ll get the +15. 
but given i’ve rerolled faction, i’d imagine i wont get there til Season 2 now unless i get wildly lucky.
but heres the TLDR>
Most people who are getting 220 prior doing +15s. likely will never do +15s enough to unlock this Achievement, which means the Systems not applicable to them in the Slightest.
This will help thje players who are Pushing for +15s as people who are Pushing keys, Arent farming key levels and they arent doing enough of the Lower keys to gear reasonably Prior Entering +15s.
Sure, get a carry and use that as a sensible example. 
It was a PuG. and it was For Fun.
we were doing a +4, and one said heck it lets do a +12
We died 108 times… we were ALL Super undergeared… Jeez mate have a laugh it took ages Lmfao, and it was hilarious… Its called Just having a laugh with Like minded Players.
it wasnt a “carry”… what “carry” Dies 108 times.
none of us were geared enough to do that run as it was Lmfao… stop being so sour about everything… beleive it or not, 1) the dungeons Completable. and if ur gfoing in with the mentality of Just heck it we just hit 60 why not get a good vault reward… u can do it.
it’ll just take a LONG time as it did.
I werent carried, none of us were geared for that.
Sure, because a 160 had a +12…
And I’ll laugh when you say something funny. Not when you use a dumb example to belittle others “lol mate I was cruisin a +12 at 160 kekw”.
Also, checkin your rio it looks like you buy half your runs…
Lol i really dont… but i enjoy ur insults… i have no Gold… my Main and this char arent even on the same faction or Realm so nothings tradeable.
u can look into them…i have no proffessions no gold generation.
Also how has a Man who BOUGHT RUNS never done a +14?!.. lol, wut? u cant even buty runs beneath +14… or atleast i’ve been told, i removed Trade chat with all my chars so not updated on these days.
Look at the people in my groups… Go look at their profiles.
UI will reliese some of them are from MY GUILD. which im obviously not buying runs from. and the other half are a Assortment of Random PUG players lmfao.
Imagine going on a Profile where i think is tied to my rogue?!.. with Most of my highest runs beign NOT TIMED. and proclaiming i’ve been “buying my keys”.
Ur high Jealously shows my friend.
I made the +4 key, bnot the +12 key. a 212?? ( i think) Warrior applied to the group he had the +12 Key… lmfao i think i find u hilarious. 108 Deaths in a Carry run Ofcourse dude Lmfao… boosters are making the gold they make because they’re dying 108 times During the keys the paying players are doing.
Ur really not Smart.
if i was gonna buy boosts, i’d buy boosts for +15s who tf buys a +12 boost which i think is my highest key… and i think +10 is my highest Timed Key.
What makes my keys “look bought”. As none of the players i’ve been in roups with are beyond like 215 odd ilevel. Half of them share a guild with me and ontop of that entirely Arent even the correct levels of key which people buy boosts for.
I think its More a case of u simply want to try fight any argument For the loot systems and because i stated something ur trying to remove the argument by proclaiming “buying runs”.
but keep on with the Slander. lmfao, i have no interest talking to a Dishonest person. if the runs were bought they’d be timed, they’d also be +14 or higher its called pushing ur own keys.
if u list a +12 key plenty of 212-215s will apply… u just make the group… and if it fail Repeat it continously til u eventually get one done, thats as Simple as it is none of those keys were timed to a hnigh enough grade nor anything to prove anything more they were only Just about timed.
if u thought i had the gold to be able to buy boosts, dont u think i’d buy BoES to gear this character out?
I’m finding runs where you as a 191 rogue are in a group with 1.5k rio people not in your guild. Seems legit 
because PAID BOOSTERS HAVE 1.5k RIO?!
LOL
Its called the pug system, they applied to my run. One of thosew 1.5k RIO players are in my guild paid boosters are 2k+ Minimum if not further… lol.
If i had the gold to buy boosts Dont u think i’d buy 213 BoEs… or atleast buy them of a valid level to atleast ghet the mount?!
i made all those keys, i didnt pay fopr any of them… and those players are the randoms i found through the Premade group finder
stop with ur garbage. Yeah theses a FEW high RIO players, did u look at the 200 RIO players iu also played with throughout the keys? Nope… u target the Bias statistics… i Pug keys… i get people of all RIO Levels… if som,eone is 1.5k RTIO ofcoursei invite them.
but u can see i got those keys myself… the continous Spam of keys and fails til i reached those
i ran 30 Keys on my Rogue last week… just because i no lifed a System doesnt mean im buying boosts… it just means i’ve repeativerly rolled the chances til i succeeded
my rogue does about 3-4k DPS… its perfectly viable for a +12… just becayse u have to outgear content to be capable of it doesnt mean we all do, u are 110% Blocked. i cba with ur ignorant Slanderous Attitude.
My brother is a 1.2k Rio hunter… why would a 1.5k be weird in my group? I have 7 chars a with 600-800 RIO with timed keys throughout them
My most progressed char is my DK who’s 209 he’s just not flagged at my main.
If you get with 160 ilvl in a +12 you obviously get carried. And it can be a total fun wipe party with friends or guilds or community members. No judging there. It happens all the time and it is not a negative thing 
But you do got carried.