108 and tbh they werent much higher was one of the funniest runs I’ve did as no one cares for the timer and we went in only for the vault. We all knew we would wipe alot
The mage in the group had never done the dungeon it was hilarious wasn’t with friends though
I just had 3 people in my run who were guildies and they asked if I would do a +12 I said yeah was a laugh
And I’m not denying that. The 3 guildies even at 108 deaths were a large part to managing that. As the panda said I wouldn’t of even been able to obtain a key that high at my ilevel.
Not to mention if they didn’t swap chars to cover the vital roles we wouldnt of managed it either.
But that’s what seperates pugs and social players
We get into content alot faster because of the mentality behind that. My rogue is also low ilevel in some eyes. However +15s are 208+ content. And a 191 can do a +10 easily…
My brother did a +11 yesterday with a 180 tank who 2 Chested it.
And can’t rly call a tank “boosted” pugs require miles above the actual dungeon needs. But group on discord pushing keys can easily do what pugs can’t.
My point was what is capable. Via guilds via communities and more. Is above the average pug. And while yeah in the pug world you need to be 220+ to get into groups. People in guilds and friends are doing that achievement at 210 odd.
No I didn’t? Lol I couldn’t even afford a boost if I wanted it.
And if there is that’s news to me
My RL brother is a 1.2k RIO hunter he made alot of the group’s with my rogue in its lower period to advantage off his RIO.
There are plenty of high players who apply to groups with a low friend to push a key to him. There’s also plenty of them that apply to my runs.
The same as I took me 209 DK into a randomers +2 for some fun.
The keys aren’t timed. They weren’t boosted because you can see my ilevel had impacted the group enough even with 1.5ks to begin with to fail the keys.
Imagine buying not times runs… espically last week.
And it still doesn’t explain the tons of really low RIO players in that group with us
I group with people as low as 200 RIO. Heck I took a tank without any Rio.
Please stop. It’s a cherry pick of one run of 30 runs.
I beleive I did have a plaguefall+12 which I tined as 2 220 druids applied randomly for the key. But neither were 1.5k.
I’m sorry but your a fool if you disbelieve people are farming these keys. There are people boosting others keys just for loot. Plenty of streamers will boost your key also if you need loot.
If you were to go down the boosting method. There’s far better ways then paying for it…
your average player will not clear +15 even with 233 gear.
because like you said unlike mmorpg games this is basen on "arcade games " skills not on gear/char progression - like mmorpgs should be.
look at classic - you have raids with bosses having 2 mechanics tops on very long cds. and nobody has problem with that
why ? because classic is proper mmorpg.
same will be with TBC - nobody will have problem with bosses having next to no mechanics and being ultra easy . same with WoLK legacy when it comes out
because those games were mmorpg based on grinds and time spend not on "arcade gaming " skills.
Classic raiding is laughable, people who play Classic do it for the community and sentiments, not for the game. If Classic difficulty dungeons and raids were added to retail, wow would instantly die.
MMORPG does not exclude skill checks. If you think everything should be faceroll like in Classic you are welcome to play it.
they should fix tyrannical and nerf it and fix the other affixes healers can’t heal through without going oom. whats the reason to even gear now when the dungeons are like a mythic raid hard like no enjoyment walking with your guilds or people anymore.
I did not bother doing M+ at all this week due to Tyrannical, I had a higher key and with a single low dps it was impossible to finish it with Tyrannical.
I never denied this point. Nor have I said your factually wrong in what you’ve said either. My point wasnt to tell you the Valor systems a improvement. in my response to you I even said it’s implementation is flawed.
To require a achievement for +220 is questionable. And even stated I feel it should be 226 at a compromise if they’re gonna uphold it.
My point was it will benefit the initial surge of players that gun down the content so it isn’t useless to everyone. And a large amount who will have a problem with this are the people not doing a +15 at all therefore can’t benefit from this regardless.
The problem is the fact the achievements requirement is there at all, if they put a Valor system in that just let everyone kinda move slowly towards getting 220 gear from the get go alot of players would actually value from it entirely.
And the backlash of “well Ur noobs will smash +5s so easy due to being overgeared unnessercarily” I don’t think is a worthwhile argument against it either.
I think the Valor system should just be a time based reward. It’s below +15 vault. So they aren’t overtaking anyone.
I think i said this in a prior statement on a similar topic.
Blizzard spend more time trying to gate players gearing then actually making its gearing process fun.
Ur right 30 runs is excessive and to still have only just got to 200 ilevel on that rogue aswell is ridiculous.
My time wasn’t rewarded in any measurement. Let alone the real players actually buying boosts for whatever reason … litterally a waste of money and Ur likely to gain nothing.
The PvP system is effectively the way forward. I should likely start investing there and learn PvP. Espically if this valor system isn’t improved before it’s launch
Blizzard have forgotten one thing and that is some form of time based reward. It doesn’t exist this expansions the players time isn’t respected in the slightest.
this hasn’t existed since legion and i didn’t even like legion but at lest mythic+ dungeons were doable on all specs now its just a clown fiesta stack mage or druids or buy boost.
A major problem I’ve basically had is I play a char, I climb my own key far too rapidly compared to my gear growth, I end up with a +10 onwards key down to persistence then simply bounce back and fourth between a certain bracket where there’s nothing I can utilise more to do more because of my gear.
My DK bounced between 12 and 14 for a entire week. Of timing the 12 failing the 14 timing the 12 then back down to a 14. Random leavers throw my key down even further slowly creep back upwards.
My rogue followed the same pattern between the 10 and 12.
So did all my other chars. Til I grind em so hard I burn out of the content and make another alt.
This expansion has turned me into a altaholic quite litterally. Because gearing up to being able to do a +10 is actually more fun then going any further.
It should be doable on all specs with a ilvl above 210 at lest but right now it feels like they don’t want you to play higher keys. the rewarding playing pve in mythic + is dead raiding is killed of and the affixes still over tuned. Like the tanks don’t tank anymore all they do is run circles around the floor. It was more fun to play in legion doing mythic because back then you could play with you friends and still manage to time them dungeons
