So Ardenweald is gonna be attacked by Sylvanas and the Mawsworn and I do realize threads about this are already up and running but I want to talk about the Sylvanas-loyalists-pov on this.
So any mention of nelfs and world trees and burning trees are forbidden in this thread, you can take those discussions elsewhere.
Anything else goes.
I was Sylvanas loyalist obviously. This character is my main, I started around the time NH dropped during Legion, I have many alts, but I simply don’t enjoy playing anything as much as afflock, only bdk comes close. And I very much enjoyed Forsaken class fantasy.
Right now I really want to join the Mawsworn simply to spite the writers. Personally I’m just done with the Sylvanas-story. I want the writers to come up with something new. There was nothing wrong with Sylvanas being in the background just ruling the Forsaken and (maybe) scheming. Those schemes could be fun/interesting sideplots like the various apothecary questlines we’ve seen throughout the game previously.
The way they went with Sylvanas sort of ended the fun of the game for me. I wouldn’t even be here if it wasn’t for the lockdown which I know is easy and even fashionable to say these days, but it’s true.
My gametime is running out and I don’t intend to come back anytime soon.
This outcome had to be expected to some degree, I hope? I have a hard time believing that even now, there were hopes of even loyalist players of Sylvanas wanting to rejoin her at all odds?
Killed the Human resistance after the Scourge was defeated
Subjugated a Dreadlord, knowing full well they were going to betray her at some point
Claimed the Capital City of Lordaeron unjustly.
Used the Plague multiple times without permission from the Horde, allowing the incident at the Wrathgate, Gilneas and the Second Battle for Undercity, where she fired on her own allies
Raising many innocent people and forcing them to fight against their will when they were offered a choice before
Attempted the murder of Garrosh Hellscream during his farcical trial
Force Brainwashing of many undead into serving her will or for disobeying her orders
Started the 4th war by invading Ashenvale, leading to the burning of Teldrassil and the deaths of many civilians
Betrayed all her people and the Horde by killing Saurfang and telling them to piss off
Shattering the Helm of Domination and unleashing the Scourge on the world once again
She also intended to murder her sister because she was lonely ruling the forsaken
She is the most evil being in the warcraft universe, worse than Garrosh, worse than the old gods, because she betrayed everyone around her: her family, the forsaken, the whole horde (what she was choosen to protect, not to lead into a pointless war), and literally betrayed all living being with soul, when she cooperated with the jailer. The punishment for her is inveitable, prepare your tissues. She literally stand alone in the whole universe, no family, no race, no one stands beside her. I can’t imagine worthy punishment for her, maybe if they give her to Revendreth and torture her in a chamber for all eternity.
Blizzard monumentally wasted yet another entire character arch for the sake of temporary shock value.
We may still have something that salvages bits of what made the character, and its theme, interesting. But they’ve already gone down the deep end with it.
Much like it happened with Orcs before them, the Forsaken will come out of this whole thing in a deplorable situation.
I’m going to bookmark all these sort of replies for when Blizzard turns their gaze towards other characters. Given this sort of development is truly so popular for certain people…
Then, I’ll simply quote them one by one, in the gigantic waterfall of tears that will rain down on the forums when Turalyon, or Alleria, or Tyrande, or Genn, follow after Sylvanas and Garrosh down this route.
And I’ll close the post with a “See? They deserved it all along? Deal with it, simp.”
WoW never had a choices to its narrative. It always was a linear path. Why would Sylvanas be given special treatment? Because she is popular? A lot of characters were popular and were never given a choice and a lot of story decisions were wildly unpopular and we were never given a choice.
In fact, Sylvanas and her loyalists is the only time in the history of the franchise when players were actually given a branching questing path, however meaningless it was.
So? A lot of playable races are in a deplorable state right now, and unlike them, the Forsaken have been the only ones who were allowed to completely defecate on their enemies without any consequences for the better part of a decade now.
And even now, even when she is, according to her fans, wasted, ruined, and whatever, she still is the focus, still is the center of attention, still is the character who is allowed to crap on most things, who appears in all cinematics and that still isn’t enough.
Also, let’s not kid ourselves, she isn’t gonna die. Sylvanas at worst will get the Sargeras treatment, whether she gets redeemed or not, in the process. Even as an antagonist she will have preferential treatment, look at that, despite almost everyone who isn’t a Forsaken having major narrative beef with her noawadays, while we have killed others of far lesser transgressions.
To be fair, as an Alliance main, Garrosh was the best warchief the Horde never had and it still makes me cry.
To be fair, I do not think this was not unjustly. The Forsaken honestly had no options left and they had the might (and right as Lordaeroni) to take the Capital City for themselves.
That said, it was a dick move to kill Garithos, especially since he apparently was keeping his word.
To me Garrosh feels less redeemable than Sylvanas, from a Horde perspective I mean. He arguably harmed the Horde way more than Sylvanas did - she commited war atrocities but mostly directed her fury outwards rather than inwards. Hence the loyalists I guess. Let’s also not forget that she actually strengthened the Horde a lot, with the recruitment of the allied races.
Love Garrosh as a character tho. His development def was a letdown
The first two allied races were brought in by the Blood Elves and Tauren. Sylvanas was only informed about them and gave the nod when she met Thalyssra and Mayla.
They maybe will, but this won’t make Sylvanas less evil, or somehow morally acceptable.
The decision was not hers about Garrosh’s fate, simply as that. Another sign of how she can’t respect the decision of her own people and thinks herself a better than everyone, and how she feels herself to rightfully decide alone about others. The same behaviour at Teldrassil, against her sister, shooting at her own soldiers, using forbidden chemical weapons, etc…
Fair reasoning, but it is a moral question for me. First of all: dead shouldn’t be raised to serve anyone against their own will and use them as brainless warmachines. Secondly: if they do it, this won’t make them a nation, that city was built for the living, not for the rotting, brainwashed slaves.
After all, she made so much evil things, so much crimes against humanity (against the values and against the humankind as well), against family, against tons of peoples who trusted her (horde, forsaken), even against life itself, that she can not be redeemed. There are written laws and moral lines/borders in every society, even in horde ones, but she crossed them all, every single one of them. She has zero moral value as a person, no place in the whole universe, there is not a single group she could join to. Stop trying to justify her morally. There is literally no acceptable excuse for such things. The so called “Sylvanas loyalists” are nothing more, than a bunch of blindfolded people, who don’t know enough about her or simply can’t accept that she has betrayed them all, multiple times. Let her go.
True, true. These events took place under her reign but the Highmountain and Highborne joining can’t be attributed to her. She was at the heart of the recruitment of the Zandalari (and subsequently the Vulpera), though. She also did play a direct role in bringing AU Mag’har Orcs and Breakers into the Horde.
Literally who cares ? Anyone with an inch of common sense would have predicted Garrosh breaking free. Assassinating him would have avoided the thousands of meaningless deaths that occurred in WoD… I’ll take that over cutting a “farcical trial” short anyday
Awful thing is, even if he did keep his word, what’s to say his rampant xenophobia wouldn’t have gotten in the way if he was spared? It’s whataboutism admittedly, but considering what he did in WC3…
Now let’s be fair here. To contribute to that morality question.
Sure, in a traditional setting, you can call anything Undead as a brainless zombie that wants to raid nice little living settlements to eat their brains ala typical hollywood movie apocalypse, but that is not what the Forsaken was or have been in the first place. They have as much legitimate claim to Lordaeron as Shadowtwill put it rightly.
In fact, there is entire quest chains existent that detail the difference between Rotbrains and Forsaken that even they have striven very hard to deal with them becoming a problem.
It is an interesting take for the Forsaken to continue surviving even with specifics, and in a world where they are constantly reminded from others that their suggestion of progressing is pretty much:
“Go die again lol.”
I am not surprised that they’d be looking for their own way of survival. Granted, I hate Sylvanas as a whole, but neither can I fully deny narratively that the idea of progressing the Forsaken was a good idea rather than let them stagnate.
i agree here. it’s about time blizz took the Token Evil Teammate hat away from the Forsaken. they’ve been wearing it since vanilla and it’s led to some really interesting plotlines for them. it’s now time for someone else to give it a spin, preferably an alliance race considering the Horde is undergoing an engoodening and the alliance is showing signs of fragmentation
Whataboutism doesn’t really negate the fact i stated above.
And one would argue that being left leaderless, homeless, and without any notable character that could keep up the racial narrative the target audience were fond of, is about the rock bottom any race could achieve on a narrative level.
And in said regard, i’d say that few can equate themselves with Orcs and Forsaken.
As i said, I’ll certainly be there to remind it all for those that take all of that as acceptable, desirable, positive, or even logical development, when this sort of focus is turned towards other characters these people like.
Because surely, we won’t have ANY complaint when/if Tyrande goes down in a blazing ball of “She turned evil”, or “she was consumed by senseless vengeance and had to be put down”.
It’s not as if we aren’t having reactions to the looming presence of similar development for other characters…
(And honestly cba to quote the million NEFPA posts that surfaced at the bare INSINUATION that Tyrande may have crossed any sort of line)
Sure, sure. And i’m sure we will have a similar list of crimes to go with the upcoming development of any character Blizzard feels like throwing down the same Sylvanas road.
Brace yourself, 'cause there is already a list “in the making” for any character we want.
After all, Turalyon already condoned the torture of innocents, advocated for the death of his mentor, and supported the genocide of an entire race (alongside his wife).
But i’m sure we’ll be able to pile the list even further when things come around and the Light Crusade comes down on 10/11.0
Sylvanas actions will pale in comparsion to the stellar crusade to convert or genocide all existence under the Lights heel!!
You mean those that disagree with the Sylvanas/Forsaken Hating Mob?
I mean, i understand to some degree that a divisive character that bears the bulk of the faction war narrative on its back, can inspire quite a potent feeling for the opposite side.
But when said mob turns against those that simply say “I liked the sort of narrative this theme presented”, or try to guilt-trip them into believing that they are to have their enjoyment punished because they like the appeal of amoral traits in a story, it’s sort of asking for the rain, buddy.
Specially if they are then to brandish what could only be called bad storytelling as a correct way to do the above.
Again i say, that if/when the same happens, and another character from the opposite side gets this sort of treatment, i’ll certainly be there to remind all these posts.
Lordaeron belongs to Farsakens. They are the same population that lived there before the Scourge. And they were rejected (unjustly) by other Human kingdoms.
Someone mentioned Garithos. I googled. It isn’t even sure, that he was Lordaeroni, and he wanted to rule the capital? Also, he was arrogant. Varimathras did nothing wrong.
Blizzard made Sylvanas character, do so much evil no sense, and still she is popular. She was/is SO cool. Only Arthas is above.
Yeah people who think Sylvanas fans like her because they’re 16yo edgelords who enjoy being seen as amoralistic got it wrong imho. The truth is, she’s cool as hell. Been there for a long time, has huge charisma and incredible voice acting, sole savior of her entire “race”, solid tactician and warchief, died like 3 times and still beats yo butt. Even in cinematics, she just like… stands out
I guess that’s why Blizz capitalizes off her a lot
no, i mean the peanut gallery who turn up to bray at anyone who dares express the least exasperation with how Blizzard treat certain characters and factions.
also nobody hates the Forsaken. we’re sick of how their status as token evil teammates often lands them choice roles at the centre of every interesting story twist in the lore. it’s past time for someone else to have a go.
I still feel awe standing in Royal Court next to her. She enslaved a Dreadlord ffs.
Sylvanas was an incredible asset. I don’t understand, why Blizzard had to destroy her image.
