I would actually be for bringing Thrall back, if he’s written well.
I was always annoyed that Thrall was such a weak leader that when he saw trouble in the form of Garrosh (that he himself created), he just left the Horde and became kind of neutral. Then he came back again, but it was not his initiative to end Garrosh, it was Vol’Jins. And after that, he still doesn’t have the balls to become Warchief again. He’s too meek in his current state. In my opinion, he should have gone through the same character development as Jaina. Also being the one to be naively idealistic about peace, but then realizing the events require him to take some responsibility and take the lead. Give him some edge and… Orcishness.
I know many people hate his character for being a Green Jesus… but that’s honestly the outcome of his weird peaceful demeanor, ideals and neutrality. That’s the “Jesus” part in that analogy. As he stands now, Instead of taking matters in his hands, he’d rather just go into hiding and sob over uselessness and problems he caused. That needs to end. How come that a human female was able to go through this development and a big green orc can’t?
Yeah, maybe most of ya will just want him dead or disappear. But I think that fixing the character would be less… pathetic for the story. I don’t like this expectation-disappointment approach in wow writing.
I can’t wait to nuke Sylvanas from orbit.
I find it very worrisome that you take pride in comparing the US in WWII with Sylvanas’ Horde.
Let’s not even speak of your comparison between fascist Japan and the Alliance.
Hang Baine with a Firing Squad… What are you going to do, give him a lethal injection with an electric chair?
Why is it always a Belf or an Undead that starts these treads?
Why its always a blood elf who is trying to act like tough horde fanboy?
Remove the blood elfs and they will go back to the alliance and forget about the horde.
The same reason it’s always a low leveled, super undergeared horde character is replying against them.
Said the Undead (Elf Undead btw) and elf lover, gross.
Those of you using ‘traitor’ in such a throwaway manner need to remember a few things. Sylvanas herself went against Garrosh numerous times, so if you’re going to brand Baine a traitor for trying to uphold Horde honour, then you do so in defence of someone who had defied her own Warchief for far less noble reasons various times, even plotting to have him killed.
To the person saying Baine was different vs Sylvanas in War Crimes - she wasn’t Warchief then and certainly hadn’t a strangle-hold over everyone like she does now, so you can’t compare that Baine to this Baine. Sylvanas made it very clear how little she cared for her ‘subordinates’ back in Lordearon, and directly opposing her (with Saurfang gone and little to no backup from other leaders) would be infinitely more stupid than trying to salvage honour.
To the person who questions why Baine went to Jaina alone and kept his plan secret, well, who was he going to tell? The money-loving double-chin who was all too eager to bring his schemes to Sylvanas? The Orc in hiding? Lor’Themar (who has been very quiet as of late and had considered swapping allegiance before, even if he (now) doesn’t share the highest opinion of Sylvanas? Baine went alone because he had next to no options AND the fact he doesn’t want to implicate others. Even when Sylvanas figured it out (like he knew she would), he owned up to defend Zelling, despite the fact he’s one of their newer recruits and recently of the Alliance.
You can call it stupid, but it’s all within his character. This isn’t meant to be black and white, it is a whole bag of (predictable) grey.
To the person saying the game needs to go with X side being all-good and Y side being all-evil, that goes against the fact that there has never been a truly evil side - just two sides trying to get on with things. Thrall’s Horde (the Horde we begin WoW with) was forged in a bid to find a life for themselves as a united group, not to be ‘Evil McEvil’. I can imagine the reaction if you decided “Hey, Sylvanas is evul, let’s make an entire faction evil from now on”, and who is to say the Alliance hasn’t had its own share of greys and evil? Simple reason is, games like this thrive on the drama/grey area, not by forced Black vs White (which it never truly was).
To those saying throwaway comments like “Yeah, well, this is war, win it by any means necessary!” - reminder, she is not in it for the Horde in the first-place, mostly using it for her own schemes. I hope to be proven wrong, but that is how it clearly looks for both sides right now.
In the meantime, we just have to accept that our Warchief has no issue melting her own troops because why not? Had no issue leaving faction leader(s) to their deaths before and during her rule (because why should she care?), even trying to get you involved in Saurfang’s attempted assassination. The use of the blight, which has its own consequences, the burning of Teldrasil (and many other decisions done without council) all because the bulk of her plan (killing Malfurion / making the Nelves bleed out the Alliance) failed.
The list goes on and on.
I’m by no means anti-Sylvanas and I certainly do want to see where this all leads - I’m even open to the possibility that there IS some actual scheme underfoot which might help both sides in the end (because come on, aside from Ulduar, the factions typically have to come together for most threats), but unless that is proven, you can’t pretend like this doesn’t look like it’s heading into very shoddy Garrosh v2 trite. The only difference is it’ll likely be tied in with the whole ‘death’ vibe floating around (eg. Bwonsamdi) and her resolving some means of keeping herself and/or Forsaken alive.
In short, no, Baine (and Saurfang) are not traitors ‘to the Horde’, just Sylvanas, who is a poor example as Warchief at the moment and has done very little other than consistently (and willingly) annoy both sides of the fence with her underhanded solo antics. This could all prove to be part of some elaborate plan we’re as of yet unaware of, but thus far it’s hard to see it as anything other than the lead-up to Sylvanas either being deposed or relenting the mantle for X or Y reason.
ye that hamburger traitor needs to be hanged asap!!!
…
inb4 we get a quest to save him
I liked Taliesin’s speculation that this will be the second time Baine thinks he is doing the right thing but ends up only worsening things. First time in Theramore, now delivering the sleeping agent to the target. I think as Taliesin that Sylvanas counted on him acting as he did…
I can’t wait to kill Sylvanas! She is pissing me off.
The Horde needs a true leader like Thrall was as its beginning.
Says the alliance for true horde
eheheh when i wrote that i was horde. But i swear: my clever alt is horde!
Loool you double agent
in her (his) history Tesla was born as Belf female the 1st day of TBC, became a worgen in cata and Mop, after a belf male in wod and a forsaken in late wod. In legion a human female and after a belf and again an ally (dwarf for heritage).
Identity crisis haha
Baine’s father died resisting a warmongering warchief. I hope the same fate doesn’t await him now. It is always the Tauren who stand up for what is right and honourable, no matter the cost.
Gotta say you make some interesting points.
Imo Baine and Saurfang , for what they are supposed to represent (old horde, honor etc) act very stupid. Abandoning battlefields hiding in swamps and being a3 meter tall Tauren in a “secret mission” to save Derek all seem out or character, which is a shame for what they again represent. You cant blame Sylvannas for being a schemer and then kill a ship of Forsaken, hand over Derek and make it look like piracy to conceal it from Sylvannas.
As for Sylvannas even I, as a fan of her, can see why people would consider her evil but I also think she is currently the easy way out for people to blame “Blame Sylv duh”.
But on speculation realm, Sylv is dealing on Death and afterlife as is Bwonsamdi, Eyir and Lich King. Odyn sacrificed his one eye to be able to “see” into the shadowlands and on Voljin questline the shades that attack us when we dig info, again are not visible till then.
So I really like to think Sylvannas is able to see this Unseen soon-to-be threat and all this amassing of power would also serve that purpose. She still hates the Alliance and would wipe them all if she could, so dont think she is neutral hero level .
But I also like to think there is more to her than just Blight
lol 388 ilvl you must be super geared