Titanforging makes the game more fun for the majority of player, and some small part of a minority of players is angry about it. I think this alone should make it clear that nothing needs to be changed. But it probably will be anyway. I think it’s a pretty sad thing that game design in video games is so dependend on who can raise the biggest angry mob. And people should really stop calling these people “elitists”, they can’t be elitists since they are not part of an elite. It’s like calling people that spend most of their time watching TV and then being angry when their favourite TV show doesn’t run that fan script they send in “elite TV watchers”.
And this argument about it not being an RPG, I hear that on anything lately these people disagree on. But I clearly remember playing RPGs where you could open a chest and there could be anything in it from a useless potion to a +5 item that is way ahead of your level. Titanforging is just the WoW version of that. They could have just as well made new items that are 15 or 20 levels higher, have a different item name and icon and otherwise the same effects and not called it titanforging, but just the luck that you dropped a better item. But this way, with upgrading existing items it’s way easier to implement.
A few thougths to various posts (in no particular order)
1.) Titanforging is a good system, but it should be tuned down a litte. For instance. Normal Raid should Titanforge Heroic Raidgear, but not Mythic.
In order to do so the Range of Itemlevel should be reduced. Mythicgear shouldnt be THAT different from Normalgear. Of course it should be better, but not by that much.
2.) People dont leave because of Titanforging, thats just silly. They leave because the content just doesnt support continuous play. Plus after Legion, which was a very good expansion, BfA is just a big letdown. Most of all the removal of the Artifact weapons and Legendaries without giving us ALL the actives and passives that come with it in another way (like Glyphs). Plus the necklace and the Azerite gear sucks. On top of it all, classes that where sooo much fun in Legion for some reason got gutted, so no one wants to play them.
3.) Whats up with Weapons not changing stats? I know thats unrelated, but as a Druid I really hate it.
Because people (myself included) don’t like the fact that loot is given out to anyone who didn’t earn it.
See? That’s the problem.
What makes you think you are more “worthy” of anything in a game you pay for like everyone else? What makes you more deserving?
The time you put into the game? You already have more chances at good loot if you play more.
Skills? If you are that good you probably are in a hardcore raiding guild and will get better stuff. Even if not than skill should not be a factor - you are rewarded for participation.
What is it then? What makes a “hardcore” more deserving than a “casual”?
doing harder content is deserving of better rewards.
titanforging totally screws up the progression system and the learning curve.
@ OP ![:rofl:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
Just because a streamer agree with what many of us have been saying for years now we follow his agenda? ![:clown_face:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/clown_face.png?v=6" ":clown_face:")
I rather see they at least changed it so no items couldn’t Tf over 370 and that is a compromise to keep “you” happy. All-in-all I want every aspect of wf/tf remove completely for the game.
doing harder content is deserving of better rewards.
titanforging totally screws up the progression system and the learning curve.
Wrong. To do harder content you need better gear. When you beat the hardest there is - what you need batter gear for?
to do it faster, with better margin of error, to boost guildies alts, or selling boosts.
plenty of reasons.
and to be better prepared for the next tier
Why is titanforging a good system? I’m still waiting to hear a solid argument for why it’s a good thing to have besides “it feels good to get a titanforged item”.
to do it faster, with better margin of error, to boost guildies alts, or selling boosts.
This is flavor. Would even say fluff of raiding. And because of it you have qualms with casual players getting good gear - even by sheer luck?
Could you imagine the uproar from the community if Mythic Ghuun didn’t drop any loot? Do you want to be the person to tell all the mythic raiders that they don’t need anymore gear once they have beaten the final boss in a raid?
So, are you saying you need 370+ gear to do Normal Uldir? Or 380+ gear to do heroic Uldir? You NEED better gear, but when someone is farming LFR/Normal and walking away with 380+ gear, the ONLY way they can now upgrade that is to either get lucky again, or go into content they are not ready for.
That’s the biggest problem with Titanforging, the fact players are going into content that they shouldn’t be in. An LFR raider is getting to the point of having the same gear as a Heroic raider, and so they join Heroic raids since that’s the lowest difficulty where they can get upgrades. I’ve seen people at 360 ilvl and they haven’t stepped out of LFR, or done higher than a +5 key, but because of their ilvl, they should be doing +7’s and up, and going into Heroic raids.
But, because they’ve been given these lucky titanforged gear, plus all the welfare gear, they are now on par with people who have progressed through much harder difficult. And, thus, this destroys the whole gear progression thing. When someone hasn’t even left LFR yet and are on par with someone doing Heroics, there’s something wrong.
Well, there are allways 2 sides to a story, so in that case it is not weird that some people like it and some don’t.
For myself, i am not sure. It all comes down to the time u can spend playing WoW i guess.
One example comes to mind, where i had to farm ( i think) was the culling of stratholme for the tanking shield. If i remember correct it was one of the better pre-raid tanking shields, and it took me a sheit load of time to get it. Then going into raids, it almost got replaced within 2 runs.
I didnt mind at the time, was a student, not lots of things to do, so i could easily squeeze out a 4/5 hours of WoW everyday.
When i look at my curren position, 3 kids, a wife, work 40 hours a week, and all
The things that come with having kids, i find myself having zero time Some of the days, 2/3 hours when wife has a late shift.
But im still interested in everything that comes with WoW, especially raiding. It means some weeks i cant , and Some weeks i do 2 evenings. In this case of
The tanking shield, tanking hours and hours to drop, it would be very nice to see it getting a titan or warforge, so the shield isnt replaced the next day and it would leave me feeling empty.
On the other side, it does brint
Some problems to the table. Bad rng can make u go weeks without an upgrade, and as stated earlier: u got layers of rng, so u can be lucky with an drop, with the ilvl and it not being an upgrade due stupid rng stats.
The deserving part isnt really in my books,
We all play the same game, paying the same amount of money and therefore we all deserve the same. Either u do 2 runs a month, or 3 months a week, or u do 15k dps or 7k dps, there is no such thing as deserving something more then someone else.
no i have qualms with the progression system being screwed up.
and that is not fluff, that is how progression systems work.
well and what are you going to tell people, who are only doing worldquests some m0 and lfr and they insist titanforging stays in the game? what do they need better gear for?
like this is so stupid, sorry… mmos are about your character and how powerful your character feels and becomes, through gear. it doesnt matter if i cleared the hardest content i still want to get better gear to become even more powerful. this is the ultimate desire, this is the hirarchy pyramide for everyone of us, to stand on the top… this is basic psychology
i fail to grasp how you ignore the very basic principle this mmorpg is build upon…
I always find this a really silly argument to make. If I buy a Dark Souls game and aren’t skilled enough to complete it am I entitled to write to the developers demanding they give me a cheat code to 1-shot all the bosses? After all, by your logic I paid just as much as someone who had the skill to complete the game, so I deserve to complete it too.
How is an mmorpg any different?
Yes there is, that’s the whole point of games. If you spend less time playing a game, you don’t deserve the same rewards as those who DO spend that time. That would be like saying someone who works for a company for 5 years doesn’t deserve the promotion more than that new guy who joined last week.
If you spend more time doing something, you will be rewarded for it. You spend less, you miss out or don’t keep up with the others. Why should someone who spends an hour playing the game every few days get the same gear as those who spend 3-6 hours a day or more?
Next you’ll be wanting the reputations that people spent hours/days/weeks working for, because you can no longer put the time in, but you still “deserve” it. You don’t. If you can’t/won’t put the time in, you don’t deserve all of the rewards.
Someone who only LFR raids does not deserve a Mythic ilvl item, because they’ve put in much less work than the Mythic raider, and yet Titanforging allows this. Even if it’s only 1 item, it’s an item they didn’t deserve to get.
Same with people who do high end content. I do Heroic raiding, and if I get a drop from a boss, I think "Eh, could have titanforged :-/). It ruins the whole point of “BiS” gear. You can aim for the “BiS” from Mythic dungeons, but it could have always been higher ilvl, or given you a socket. So, your BiS is a really REALLY low drop chance to get, since it’ll be highest ilvl and a socket.
I have hate and love for Titanforging as casual player
Love: Giving me option to get gear without doing mythic raids. But proc rate is way low so I still hardly got any Titanforging worth gear.
Hate: can’t target specific gear. Low lvl BiS vs Titanforging always hard choice.
Overall : I don’t care. Also I get jealous like other people.
well your point is outdated since in the current wow there is no such item you would desire to farm for that long and even if there is something like that, chances are you already got something way better for free (warfront).
So where is the fun? where is the feel of completion?
Imagine this: you work for a piece of loog you do the highest key of m+ you are capable of pulling of in a reasonable amount of time, then you go in a warfront fall asleep halfway through cause its so booring and get something better by default base ilvl… do you feel good?
Or the other way around? Imagine going in a warfront or lfr and getting some ridiculous item and then you need to go do some hard content and you complete the content you actually had to put work in, and guess what? you get something much worse for something that you had to work for from something you had no need to even be at the keyboard… imagine raising your kids that way: give them a task like cleaning the whole kitchen and reward them with 5€ and then reward them with 25€ for eating up their meal… good luck on that
i hope you see where the system fails in providing the player with a predictable pacing of powerprogression and meaningfull spend time instead of only participating and getting randomly rewarded…
It kind of ruins the point though, don’t you think? I don’t want to do mythic for gear if I only get 385 items while I could get something better from normal/heroic. It’s demotivating.
Not only that, but it ruins the feel of getting upgrades since you basically have no control over stuff like that. You can’t just say, “oh, I’m going to go for that item because the stats are really good for me”. Instead it’s more like, “I’ll try to get this item, but if it doesn’t titanforge + get a gem slot then it’s worthless”. It doesn’t feel good.
Well, if the new Guy is far more fit for the promotion then the other one with 5 years into the company, then yes, ofcourse he deserves it more. Other then that, its a really sheit example to make a point.
All those “deserve” people like yourself all talk if free loot is handed out. It isn’t. If u do 3/4 mythics a day, u do 3 raiding nights a week, is pretty sure to say ( like a 99% change) u Will get far more gear then me doing 2 mythics a week and one or 2 raids every 2 week. But in that time, there is a chance ( a fairly small one so it be) i get lucky and get a drop that would have been BIS voor u to, and thats when u all go Bananas and talk about deserve this or that. Complete BS. U still got far
More drops then me, still got far more gear then me, and still outperform me on every level ( if not, im just a hell of a lot better then you, do i deserve the gear more now)
Its in that case, not so different from the old system. I go into raids with u, i do sheit dps, got a meh ilvl, u rock the boat, got a nice ilvl, and i win the roll for the item thats the only upgrade for u. It
Has the same result, only a different system.