We know most of us don’t like changes. I’m not looking forward to having to change my entire UI but I’m trying to make it look as much like the one I have now with elvui.
Many friends have talked about how good cell is and now I’m happy I never bothered to test it out. It will probably be easier for me to adapt then someone who has used those addons for years. And I also play at a level where it doesn’t matter all that much anyways.
I’m still sceptical though because I don’t trust Blizz to make it decent enough from the start. Like seen above with bug existing for ages with the click casting system which clique already do perfectly (not sure if Clique will be affected at all though since it’s not reliant on combatlogs).
It dosent do any of logic. It dosent say “when someone gets dot X cast Y spell”. That is not what VohDoo and targeted spells WA do.
And it dosent make the game easier. It just adapts a DD PoV to the actual healer PoV. Which, I repeat… consists in: Health BAR (let me underline BAR for you) goes down. Do something to get it back up.
HEALTH BAR… Not toon in the screen. Not boss. Not swirly. HEALTH BAR…
You dont have to stare at a grid of health bars if you dont like it. That’s fine. All you have to do is admit that that is the healer job: Staring at health bars.
I respect that you dont like to do it. So dont. What I cannot stand is the fact that you have zero empathy for our roll. And when I try to explain it you brush it off as if I am talking about aliens or something.
Well it is. For a healer, health bars is the 101. Making us look at anything else means that the roll is harder. Harder healing == less healers. YOU might not mind 40m wait times. Everyone else… will…
Plus. Its hypocritical from your side that you ask for DD simplification because its not fun to juggle 50 different skills. But simultaneously you ask the healers to do that and you are “fine with it”.
Then stop insisting on stupid things please. YOUR DD rotation is your DD rotation. You can ask whatever you want in that regard.
But like I said. A healer rotation has nothing to do. Its not about spamming the largest number of buttons possible. Its about spamming the least amount of buttons possible. You have to cast the right spell on the right person as few times as possible. And you cant do that with out the proper information display to take those decisions.
So again. I respect that you want a better rotation as a DD. Thats FINE.
But VohDoo has NOTHING to do with that. Its a healer addon, and if you dont plan on playing healer that should not be your concern.
Your concern should be that whoever is healing in the party has all the information he needs to get YOUR health bar from 20% to 100% before the next big damage event.
At this point i would stop arguing with him. He already made very clear he doesnt understands the playstyle of a healer neither wants to. So basically just making baseless opinions to ragebait.
Well sorry if he is a good guy and i am misunderstanding him, but saying that he doesnt wants to play heal and still trying to tell people how they should play their classes seems to me like a troll. Its like i said that all DPS classes should have 3 buttons rotations with no burst CDs because its what im used to play as healer.
The issue is that you simply can’t understand that I’m not trying to teach you anything, so you’re getting mad at me for trying.
I’m not.
I’m expressing irritation that there are addons that sort out what’s important, that filter for you, makes advanced decisions, tells you what to do in advance, and in doing all this makes it completely unnecessary to orient yourself in the gameworld.
Awareness just shrinks into your UI panels - raid frames in this case - and your own feet just incase there’s a voidzone. And while you should certainly look at those frames, allowing you to only look at those frames is a problem.
This is not good for the game!
This applies to healing, DPS, and tanking in equal measure.
This thread is about Cell/VuhDo/Healbot so therefore my focus will be there.
I want Blizzard to clean up the class design and debuffs and visual indicators in the game world so that none of us have to do those things, and then I want them taken out for good measure.
There are thousands upon thousands of people who feel the way I do. None of us are trying to teach you to heal.
Not a single addon or wa does this though. In todays combat you won’t live for long if all you do is stare at the frames. Doesn’t matter how many addons or wa’s you have, you have to pay attention to your surroundings. Look for what target to interrupt, purge/soothe, where to cc (stun, root, knock up/back/ring and so on), be aware of where you position (is it best to be in melee for next mechanic or range) while also knowing what to dispel, when you have to have everyone topped up and if you have a ramping class you need to know when to start your ramp. And also weave in dps at the same time. The frames are just there, in the sideview. At least for me, its a constant back and forth between looking at frames and keeping eye on whats going on in the current pull. I dont use those addons, but I can’t imagine its any different for those that do.
You keep telling us that we shouldnt be looking at group health bars, that the cd manager and vanilla buff tracker is just enough to play heal and that heal addons are not necessary for the game, so on so forth. How is that not telling us how to play heal.
This is wrong, and you just keep showing why you shouldnt declare so confidently about something you dont know about.
Also true, if anything, these changes to the UI will result on us spending more time looking at bars while squinting eyes to find the buff we are searching for.
This is the stuff I want to see you doing for a good gaming experience. This sounds like fun to me.
Now, here’s what’s driving me mad now. I was just told that actually you aren’t doing all those things because there’s too much going on and so you’re relying on VuhDo, as healers, because you don’t have time to evaluate when the tank is getting a tankbuster by looking at the game world and seeing the cast and the DBM timer and which tank is being whacked and clicking on him.
And then when I say that’s not fun, suddenly it’s the opposite but from a different person.
Also, healer positioning hasn’t been amazing this season. Seeing plenty of ranged CC’s from healers like the totem, but a psychic scream? Once. Whole season.
I swear to God, you 4 literally disagree on everything except two things:
I need my COMBAT LOG EVENT UNFILTERED because Blizzard sucks, 4 different sets of actual reasons
Ishayo is clueless and I should make fun of him
I can literally cite each other at you and I’m still clueless.
Now, I’m not going to put up with being the centralised punching bag for your own internal disagreements, so either you are doing to calm the hell down NOW or I’m going to just point and laugh and call you bad for not being able to play without training wheels or something and really stoop down to your level.
Because it’s literally not, and half of what you say I’ve said isn’t even something I have actually said.
Although yes, you should be able to heal something with an action bar, a health bar, and a healing spell. That’s the actual baseline. Everything else is just conveniences.
I don’t use those addons or wa’s because I don’t play at the level Uda does. So like I’ve said, I will probably be fine either way. I will adapt.
Im not trying to use you as punching bag and sorry if it seemed that way. Just trying to explain that healing is not just focusing on bars. It’s alot more. We do all the same as dps except the insane rotations some specs have.
The fact we all disagree just shows that we all have different preferences and needs. What works for me doesn’t work for others. Thats what’s so nice with being able to customise to your own liking.
Firstly, you’re probably the gentlest, so no harm done. I’m vastly more annoyed with Ashdrassil in particular and… scrolling forever - oh nevermind. It’s not Uda btw, he’s being harsh but I know he means it well.
What I’m saying is people are pulling all the info that shouldn’t be on the bars and that should be that awareness you’re talking about into the bars.
I’ve seen weakauras that literally pop up a giant warning saying “Ishayo has <The Very Bad Curse> dispel now!” and make a giant warning sound. I’ve seen weakauras saying “your DPS is crowd controlled” in arena - and the other way around, too - “your healer is CC’d, use sac now” in giant red font gliding around on his screen.
I’ve seen frames that sort out what’s worth dispelling or not, addons that rename everything to “frontal”, “soak”, etc., addons that assigns everybody automatically for the raid, addons that automatically tell the players what to interrupt and coordinate with an internal system to make sure you only only get the interrupt job if some other person doesn’t, checks whether they’re CC’d and all this sort of stuff.
I’m fed up with that stuff, and if it means VuhDo goes and healers have to adjust, tough luck. I hope they can add the essentials and get it to a state where it’s good without being as crazy good as it is today.
"People " could always go back to the standard first pull from early season 2 in priory where “people” didnt pull mini Boss together with 4 apcks of mobs only 3 packs and bl and 1 pack with mini Boss later
Especialy when groups Has average itlv of 700 not 715
Then there would be much less wipes in those +10s .
But you have to be open minded on this. Sinaaki is correct in this assesment:
We already look at that. However. THIS stuff:
Belongs in the party frames. Its part of our job. And I repeat. WA and VohDoo do NOT play for you. They do NOT simplify the game for you.
Let me put it in a different way: The new Plater frames that WoW developed. The new default one that will be in Midnight… well… what can you do with it?
You can, for example, select what dots you want to be shown, and which ones you don’t. You can also change the cast bar of mobs. So that important “volleys” that you have to kick appear in “gold” and bigger bars, so they are more obvious for you. You can change the color and style of the mob bars. You can say: I want them in red. Or green. Or whatever…
Well. Healers need the same exact thing. But in the party frames. Because DDs need CLEAR information on what is important to kick and when. And healers need CLEAR information on WHO they have to heal and when.
Something we currently dont have in the default party-frame UI. So DDs have it for Blizz UI “plater”. But we dont. DDs also have a default Heliki, we dont. DDs have the 1 button macro. We dont. I mean… we dont have ANY of the tools a healer needs in the default UI.
Its not about “addons yes or addons no”. Its about: In order to play the game, you need CLEAR information on what is going on. Otherwise, you cant make decisions. You cant say “I heal player A instead of player B”. That is not my PoV. Its a literal quote from Ion himself.
And in the case of healers, that information has to be in the party frame. It cant be anywhere else.
I want to double down on this. The tank has a default UI from WOW with a nice golden cast bar that is telling him clear information on WHEN the tank buster will happen. So he can pop a CD and play the tank roll.
Meanwhile. A healer has to look at the mobs. Back to the party frames to see if the tank has enough HP to survive. Back to the mobs to see how much time you got, to decide if you pop a “OMG” Link on him, a Riptide, or a Healing Surge. Take a decision. Then back to the party frames to cast that. By then the tank is dead.
That is NOT how you are supposed to play a healer. Im sorry.
You should be able to see that the tank will be in trouble in the party frames itself. And from there, you judge if you need a link/riptide/healing surge and cast it. You can also see what is the state of the other DDs. And take more complex decisions on the party from there.
THAT is how a healer is supposed to be played. And by the way, I am not expecting special treatment here. I want fairness. I just want to have the same tools as DDs and Tanks have from the default UI to deliver combat information in a clear way. I DONT want some Vanilla piece of s-h-i-t that cant even work properly.
I never said that. I agreed with you (both yesterday and today, on various occasions) that certain logs should be filtered. But you keep insisting that the only implementation possible is removing ALL the logs. and every time i say i want to track my buffs as i did before with WA, you make a slippery slope argument saying that i want all combat logs unfiltered, that i want the addons to play for me, and so on. Its starting to feel like talking to a wall really.
Also, you talk like all healers should all agree on the exact same opinions. The thing that most, if not all agree is that vanilla UI sucks for healing.
No. Changing the color of the UI to purple, indicating that “someone has something to dispel” is not telling me what to do.
Like Mistjo said: There are dispels in DB who’s only purpose is to bait your dispel so have it on CD for the real nuke.
Its YOUR decision to press dispel or not.
As for targeted spells, same thing. Someone is being targeted by a “bolt”. You can kick the dude. You can heal the player. You can pop a link. External. Trinket. YOU press the button.
I mean… people whine about DBM telling people what to do… but in reality, Blizzard has already implemented a default in-house DBM that does exactly the same, except that you cant customize the visuals as you can with DBM. Because DBM dosent tell you what to do. It just puts countdowns on boss abilities so they dont come as a surprise, allowing YOU (the player) to take a decision to take proactive or reactive measures.
Yeah they do. A lot. Otherwise you wouldn’t be complaining about losing all its features!
I think you get the “Plater” for friendly nameplates as well.
But yeah I don’t mind if the raid frames can do what the nameplates do, of course not.
But here’s the thing - I don’t want VuhDo to work not necessarily because of everything that VuhDo itself does, although I do think it does something things it shouldn’t be doing, but because the way VuhDo works uses COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED and I want that thing shut down because you can do some truly outrageous things with it.
I just don’t agree here fundamentally. I genuinely think that you should be using the game world to orient what dangers are coming. This was called situational awareness, we were all doing it back 10 years ago and some of us were really friggin’ good at it - far more so than even the best players today. Especially in the PvP scene.
People had no timers and yet somehow just knew exactly what was coming up 3-4 steps ahead.
I’m not making a slippery slope argument - it’s an argument that even the things you’re asking for can be exploited by addons by using it in ways you don’t want to use it.
Weeell… that depends, doesn’t it? If it just makes it purple because there’s a curse, then no, it doesn’t it’s just informational.
But if it changes it to purple if and only if there that’s really dangerous debuff on the target that you have decided needs to be dispelled and it ignores all the other ones, then yeah I don’t think it’s starting to enter into that territory tbh.
Sure, you made the decision, but you made it tactically beforehand - it wasn’t an in-combat skill expression.
HAVING SAID THAT, I also think WoW is full to the brim of garbage, useless, worthless icons flying around all over the place drowning out everything you actually want to know, and it’s bloody mpossible to sort out what you actually need to see, and tbh Blizzard should put some big effort into fixing that.
Like when I look at a WotLK PvP video there’s like 5 buffs or debuffs up per target in the arena. That’s where we need to be, but we’re at 30+. Ain’t nobody able to figure out what’s going on in an environment like that.
DBM definitely tells you how to defeat the encounter.
It doesn’t actually defeat the encounter for you, but it definitely tells you exactly what to do and where to go 10-20 seconds in advance of everything, making the fight MUCH easier.
