I want rewarding challenging non timed dungeons, and I don’t want to get penalized for not rushing the dungeons, coz if I don’t rush the m+ dungeons I can’t make it on timer, and here is where the design fails for the people which don’t like the go go go mentality.
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What does it mean rush? Does it involve a different set of spells?
You just play clean, don’t afk, don’t slack around. Nothing is challenging if you just cc and kill mobs one by one. I ended up 4 manning a +10 Underrot like that, and it worked just fine, though obviously not in time. Back in TBC the breaks were mostly dictated by healer mana, but in all honesty, I don’t miss having to drink after every pack. It wasn’t hard, it was just time consuming.
You know what it means, rushing from the start line of the dungeons to the end of them with as least breaks in between as you can get, which could help the people to strategize how they wanna do something or for the healers to get more ready for the pulls ahead.
The more breaks you take, the less challenging it becomes. You can simply wait for your cds to come back up, which up the power of your group significantly. You can just CC most of a pack and kill them one by one. It literally cuts the challenge in half. As a healer - conserving mana and drinking between pulls is part of the challenge.
People still finish high keys even if they know they won’t make the timer. It just means that they reached a difficulty when they need to sacrifice the timer in order to actually finish, but that basically means you reached your limit. If there is no timer from the start, how do you know you are ready for a bigger challenge?
Or they could just stick less afflixes. I mean every week you might need 1-3 dungoens run just to adapt to the current afflixes. Dont forget that you proberly need to run a m+ dungoen 1-5 times to learn it properly and tacts change due to afflixes.
I’ve to agree that m+ was more fun in legion because it was less that you had to learn or could ignore before you could handle the dungoen at decent lvl m+.
But why exactly are you stressed? It’s not like you can’t finish a dungeon after timer. You still finish it, you get loot. You can have fun and laugh. Just find people with similar mindset to run dungeons.
you know when you have only 30 minutes driving to work and you get stuck in the traffic and you watch the time constantly? It’s not big deal if you arrive late at work, so why you get impatient? 
It’s the same feeling… you want to overtake everything and everyone to make it to work on time and not losing money. (Mythic Key in our case) and eventually you most of the time arrive late.
Interesting discussion.
Maybe instead of changing M+, they should simply implement the 5-man raid feature I was talking about as additional content instead of a replacement.
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With the current design of the dungeons that’s the true, because the trash is in a lot of them more challenging than the bosses.
I don’t see anything wrong with having challenging encounters for which is best to utilize the classes we play to their max potential, neither do I with cc-ing , in fact I think how that should be more required in the dungeons than what it is atm, rather than going for the zergs and aoe-ing everything as much as the group can handle.
The challenge should be more represented in the hard mechanics rather than in the timer itself, in raids groups reach their limit at a certain point and they don’t have the timers.
BTW: I have absolutely no issues with the current difficulty of M+. I simply want a challenge which isn’t tied to a timer and Keystone based on said timer (basically like a raid or even normal dungeon but with the difficulty of M+).
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Yeah, but Uldir is a joke. i remember older raids being more challenging than this. Mythic + are far more challenging than Uldir if not for the timer… 
I hate the timer… do you reckon?
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I agree , have been playing this game now for a long time and Uldir is for me one of the weakest first raids I experienced in several expansions.
High keys do CC. The whole zerg mentality is more prevalent in lower keys with inexperienced people. There is a massive difference between a run with people that interrupt and one where they don’t. That difference is translated in the timer - as people that don’t interrupt will wipe a lot. Also, if your group can handle things, there is no need for CC. Deciding when to CC and when to not is part of the challenge.
Removing the timer in M+ makes no sense. It’s part of the system, which is designed around it. It’s the thing that actually adds the challenge in this feature. Not to mention that you can choose to completely ignore the timer and just finish the dungeon regardless of time, you’ll still get loot for it and you’ll still get another key which will also reward loot regardless of you finishing it in time or not (unlike legion where a depleted key awarded no loot). So I don’t understand why you want something that a vast majority of players find challenging removed just because you don’t like it, even though you can completely ignore it.
I don’t really get what you want with the terminal thingie but as far as I understand you want us to be limited to a single level of difficulty every week. What is the point of that? Why artificially limit players to something which for a lot of them would be trivial? With what you are proposing in the 1st week of M+ everyone will only be able to +2, 2nd week - +3 and so on, which is quite frankly stupid.
I kinda agree with the azerite armor being drop in the end-of-dungeon chest. The reason they are not doing it is the same as to why the azerite pieces are only specific ilvls and cannot forge - trait balancing. They don’t want to have azerite pieces with whatever ilvl and make all traits scaling with like 15 different versions of the item based on ilvl.
Making M+ with weekly lockout is also plain dumb, not going to comment on it. The sole reason this feature was so popular in Legion and it is now is because it can be rapidly repeated, you have no lockouts and you can constantly do it.
So all in all you are not trying to improve the M+ system, you are trying to change it to YOUR own liking. It doesn’t make any sense.
What do you think we’re playing here, RPG?!
Must I remind you about Mythic Dungeon Invitational? And that’s the main point of it is “head-to-head race to the finish line”(copy-pasted from MDI page)?
I like your ideas, but hardly believe they will work on something like that, since players and especially e-sport fans are OK with current system. So why bother making something new. Look at the leveling, it’s just scaling and reduce xp required updates - almost 0 effort.
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you know right I can have the same gear from a M+7/8 by doing HC Uldir and having more chance to loot and less effort right? 
I’m half casual so I’m defending both sides.
I’m not saying remove the timer entirely. i’m saying they should give also the option to switch it off and not getting the key depleted at the end, for a lower ilvl loot. (M+7 360ilvl instead 365 for example)
There is a timer in m+ because without it - it would become way, way easier. You could wait for CDs every pack if you wanted too, use BL as much as you wanted to, spend 3 hours there, and get same result as someone who completed same dungeon in 25 minutes. People who want to be competitive and find fun in beating timers, getting to leaderboards, getting higher rio score etc, or even just getting more loot, would have no reason to push higher.
People who don’t want to finish in time can just ignore the timer.
I can do this up to +15 depending on my skill and i still have to get at least a +14 in time to even get a +15 for a non timer run.
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Fair point. But honestly I don’t want to do any M+ (at least not in pug), because I don’t want to waste anyone’s time and nerves. When you do about 90% of the run, then you get stuck, you can’t proceed further, someone leaves and so the run gets abandoned. Summary: ~40 minutes wasted, no loot, no weekly record, people cursed each other.
Though it is mandatory to progress with ilvl. Besides that there is nothing else to do. I think another option would be nice.
And that can happen with or without the timer. I don’t think I remember any occasion in which people left at 90% if the rest looked even remotely doable. If it’s not doable, then it wouldn’t be doable without the timer either.