This is not true. YOU yourself may not be hurting anyone, but people are being hurt. People are being forced to optimize or be benched/be refused/be ridiculed because they like to play something that’s not seen as ‘optimal’. And that is happening across all difficulties and in various types of content. It’s not limited to the top end, where that behaviour can actually be explained/justified.
That type of behaviour is trickling down into all types of play, so yes; it IS hurting others.
I beg to differ.
As I explained above; it does.
So far all that complexity was never in the player’s hands. It was down to RNG.
But in Shadowlands it IS in our own hands.
It’s not punishment. That’s a weird way of looking at it.
YOU are the ones who are acting in a way that’s damaging the game and the playerbase. Blizzard are reacting to that. That’s not punishment. That’s action and reaction.
That doesn’t make much business sense. Of course they will take their money.
Don’t talk like you have already sold me because you have NOT !
I still want a option to not be queued with mercenary mode that way you don’t have to remove it those who want to be with horde players can do so and those who don’t can wait longer and do so too !
I still want a pvp stat, the possibility to exclude two battlegrounds like before , a gear progression like before: no more fill the gauge over more than a week and get a random piece bulls***, random bg then rated bg/arena.
The class and covenant balance to be adressed firmly, symetrical map on all battleground no more deaf ear.
Until you have done that which is the way the game was you’re not getting a penny!
I will spend my money elsewhere with great pleasure, stick on classic for as long as it please ME, NOT YOU and wait on the sheeps buying or who already buyed the x-pack until we get the change we want or in a patch !
And that proves my point that the issues they are trying to tackle would be better solved by looking into ways to encourage playing in smaller communities (guilds) rather than having the group finder as the best option for almost everything.
In all my years raiding in different guilds & levels i have never been in any kind of situation that had me be in a bad spot because of my choices. Even when i was playing a bad spec, had bad luck with drops or even when i wasn’t using the best talents according to sims… when you play with friends who share the same goals and have the same view of the game as you do, you play however you want and have a lot more of fun along the way.
At least give me some kind of argument!
I’m not saying that you should like it, i’m just curious about why you think that my personal choice to optimize my character as best as i can within my limitations, for my own personal reasons, is somehow bad for the game or for yourself. Why do you think that me learning more about my class on a deeper level is harming your experience?
See, that’s the difference. I literally don’t care about the way you play, what gear you use, what talents you have, what is your rotation… why would i care? just have fun however you want, that’s what any game is about.
So this is even funny, because you are the one that is actually reproducing the archetypal elitist behaviour that you denounce. You want to deny me a part of the game because you think that the way i play is wrong… just like a random guy trying to create a group for M+ might deny you for his own set of arbitrary reasons based on a quick look at your character.
I will always defend systems that can satisfy as many players as possible, while you are all about removing aspects of the game that other players enjoy.
I’m all about finding solutions to problems that don’t require unnecessary punishment or frustration for those who are not part of the problem, while, and i’m going to make guess here, you were happy when they removed master loot even when it didn’t affect you at all, right?.
Again, in this good vs bad thing you have in your mind, please elaborate in why you think that i am the bad guy. It starting to feel like a personal attack and we don’t even know each other!
With covenants i have the same feeling i had in legion with some of the systems: they have this great concept that has a lot of things to like about it, a lot of things to be excited about… but it is being crippled down in a massive way by restrictions that will only add frustration, restrictions that don’t need to exist. But i’ll admit that frustration and feeling punished can be very subjective.
Oh i know, and honestly, i would probably do the same
I’ve already posted that several times in different threads (one of which is this very one):
You can also watch the discussion between Preach and Ion, where Ion explains this a bit more.
In this case I really don’t think it’s a majority that wants to optimize. It’s just that culture has been nurturted across different content for years now. It’s kind of become ‘the norm’ and I take issue with that because it ruins one big aspect of RPGs; making a character your own.
I wasn’t being personal; I was using plural and such.
But if you actively play like that, you ARE certainly part of the problem.
Because having fun playing my characters and using the abilities is just as if not more important to me. It’s the “gameplay vs story” choice. Again, you’re assuming people enjoy the game the same way and for the same reasons as you do.
All I’m doing is trying to make clear that the way you and Rayzens enjoy the game has a negative impact on the playerbase, the game itself and even the RPG genre.
I know and this isn’t DMs so if you don’t want anybody else going against your arguments, you’re in the wrong place.
Completely ignoring “my” way of enjoying the game here, but how does valuing the fun of playing your character over the fantasy aspect have a negative impact on the RPG genre? Why is it good to sacrifice the gameplay just for that? It should never be an issue in the first place. What good is it that I like the story if I’m not having fun with my character while going through it?
All i see are wild accusations that me playing my character has negative impact on the playerbase.
You have this weird idea that my choices do that, but in reality it’s your choices that have a negative impact on your game experience, whatever that may be.
If you can’t get into groups because you don’t put any effort into your characters power, that’s on you.
You’re just acting entitled to be carried, nobody owes you a carry.
It’s like real life, why would someone hire you for a job, over someone else which has more experience and made the proper training choices, has the best certifications?
Would a company higher someone who has experience on the job, versus someone who doesn’t have experience? We all know the answer to that.
And if you say things like training, that’s a different position that’s open, it’s called Trials in a guild in wow.
Your choices matter in the game for your game experience far more than mine ever will, it’s delusional to think otherwise.
Isn’t it funny that the game director that has decided to take that fight happens to be the guy that was the leading figure of a place called ‘elitist jerks’ that was a big reference for anything related to theorycrafting for years? And what really should make you think is actually the ‘for years’ part.
My point being that, like it or not, numbers exist, they always have existed. And as long as numbers exist, you’ll have players that care about them, because figuring out those numbers and how things work is just as valid as a way of having fun with the game as it is making a character your own, even if your choices happen to be numerically worse.
Talent A deals 10 damage.
Talent B deals 15 damage.
Talent C deals 12 damage.
That’s an inevitable truth that will happen no matter how much you dislike it or how much they try to condition and reeducate players. Basically, because that’s how the game works. Every complexity layer added is just a new number that will be figured out and be susceptible to become a silly requirement for pugs.
You are free to dislike optimization and min/maxers as much as you want, but you need to accept this simple truth: optimization will exist as long as numbers do. If you want to totally get rid of optimization, then you are basically asking for total homogenization with cosmetic choices. Making a character your own would basically be choosing different visuals.
@Tahra
I love how you cherry picked what parts of Shahraz’ earlier post you chose to reply to.
I’d love to see what you think about the part you chose to ignore.
"I’m not saying that you should like it, i’m just curious about why you think that my personal choice to optimize my character as best as i can within my limitations, for my own personal reasons, is somehow bad for the game or for yourself. Why do you think that me learning more about my class on a deeper level is harming your experience?
See, that’s the difference. I literally don’t care about the way you play, what gear you use, what talents you have, what is your rotation… why would i care? just have fun however you want, that’s what any game is about.
So this is even funny, because you are the one that is actually reproducing the archetypal elitist behaviour that you denounce. You want to deny me a part of the game because you think that the way i play is wrong… just like a random guy trying to create a group for M+ might deny you for his own set of arbitrary reasons based on a quick look at your character.
I will always defend systems that can satisfy as many players as possible, while you are all about removing aspects of the game that other players enjoy.
I’m all about finding solutions to problems that don’t require unnecessary punishment or frustration for those who are not part of the problem, while, and i’m going to make guess here, you were happy when they removed master loot even when it didn’t affect you at all, right?"
You’re being aggressive and silly.
You answered a question that I didn’t ask YOU.
That’s something totally different than going against my arguments.
I already gave you a link to an earlier statement.
Read it. If you don’t get it, I’m sorry but that’s not my problem.
I’ve explained it. I’m not going to keep repeating myself.
It’s not being sacrificed. At all.
Agreed with that. Hence why I fully support Blizzard with their plans on this.
Why should your fun ruin other people’s fun? Your fun is not more important.
But that’s only 1 aspect of it. If that was all there was, you could make a case that your fun isn’t any less important either. But… Your fun ruins more than just someone else’s fun. It takes away from one of the pillars of the genre. Which, imo (and apparently the opinion of the devs too) is a weightier issue.
So; does it suck for you that part (or all, I don’t know?) of your fun is being taken away? Sure. But it’s justified. Simple as that.
Similar to that it was justified that part of my fun was taken away with the removal of Titanforging. Was I happy with that? Nope. But I accepted it and will continue to play as long as there’s enough things that are fun for me in this game.
See? This is how they should’ve introduced Battle for Azeroth! I would’ve actually cared about slaying alliance, if I had known they were Nutella loyalists.
