I get that destro is broken, but when you come across a Dk as a class that’s damage is not broken they can pretty much keep themselves alive with no healer.
I also agree the recent dk nerfs where the wrong way to fix the problem but blizzard devs are clueless it’s like they don’t even try anymore.
I see, so DS isn’t a problem versus all the other comps which don’t serve 200k spikes?! Any comp without high dmg spells can kill a DK before deep dampening?!
Nice troll… 
You mean aside from the 5 different ways of interrupting a cast DKq have ?
icechain 70% spam 
for dmg i agree,the dk must have dmg
haha
Curious to see what you think about specs like Ret then.
Ranged, instant, no cd, 70% physical slow with 8 seconds duration spamming, making me move at the same speed as someone who’s been pushed uphill while in a wheelchair is pretty much also classified as a “big problem” in my book.
most warrior double meele comps can actually kill dk pretty fast for example and you don’t necessarily have to go on the DK, there are 2 other targets.
I mean assa rogue has the exact same thing but passive. The problem is that even the 70% slow is completely useless against some classes while it’s too strong against others.
Point is, if you nerf death strike and chains of ice right now without any compensation to damage or other things, dk will be completely eradicated from the ladder.
It would be the same as nerfing ret burst because it’s too strong but giving them nothing in compensation.
Except :
Poisoned Knife is more OP than people realize, but please, nowhere near Chains of Ice.
That being said DK isn’t super cancer in 3s now, it’s actually just a pain because it remains a strong class with lots of disruption but that’s it. Only nerfing the healing without anything else would simply make them die at 20% instead of 40% dampening against comps they do lose to already. Wouldn’t accomplish much.
do not compare a stupid spell with another stupid spell
the problem is to have 6 identical runes
now on bfa: you’re right, if it nerf the ice chain dk, it should be increased it’s dmgs.
the real cancer in 3s is rmd / wld, dh mana burn
hl the dk is not as viable anymore, because dampening game dk usless
you play rogue,you lucky, you can if you play well be top 1 in 2s and top1 in 3s, rogue assa to absolutely everything.
you just have to pve before arena ofc 
Seriously? What kind of an argument is that? You also don’t have to go on a destro lock, so their passive immortality (versus at least some classes/comps) is fine? Same for guardian druid or DH? Or people with tank trinkets?!
Well, maybe - but warrior is the only class with sharpen… And even then I doubt that you will die “pretty fast” in its usual meaning → compared to some other classes in such a situation…
Btw: The problem with dk was self heal and spamable coi with death’s advance (passive effect included) + possible wraith walk - or coi in general in a melee cleave.
Coi were always a bit overtuned imo but at times where dk literally had no mobility at all, it was defendable. Nowadays it’s just too much imo.
A bit too much drama, don’t you think? They also don’t have to nerf both at the same time. If they nerf mobility/gap closer potential, the dmg will automatically fall as well and then the self heal is less of a problem.
except that destro warlock kills you 100-0 in 2 seconds if you don’t go on him.
Problem is that COI is completely useless against some classes while it’s too strong against others.
they don’t have to nerf ANYTHING about DK at the moment. Not without compensations. How many Unholy DKs did you see at the AWC ? 0 ? Oh yea maybe nerf classes that are actually too strong right now first?
Well and do other classes have a better slow for those classes? Because you are probably talking about rdruid etc and even there coi is by far the best slow at all. Other melees even struggle to get in meleerange to get their slow onto those classes.
First of all: Zeepeye played Frost and UH, Smexxin only UH! Not to mention that those spells we are talking about are usable for both specs, so over all we actually saw quite a few!!!
It’s just your opinion, that they don’t have to do anything. I do agree tho that we have more urgent issues…
And still a stupid argument. Also a dk is doing a tone of dmg if you let him (if he doesn’t have to use runic power for DS etc… 
)
Who doesn’t !
I may be wrong, but do monks have historically ‘class defining’ spells that were pruned ?
I know a lot was changed, but i dont see the equivalent of auras/totems to be returned (and monk is already pretty well designed and “complete” as it is)
Outside of mechanic changes on exisiting spells (movement during heal channel, stuns ln fof) that dont fall into the pruning category, the only thing i can see coming for monks is something line all ‘summons’ (tiger, crane, ox) being baseline for all spdcs, but on shared CD . And maybe the big def cd brew being baselins across specs as well
It’s actually not. FoF stun,
Well, if an ability got changed so effects got pruned, it’s still pruning even if the spell remains, isn’t it?
They are also missing Spinning Fire Blossom, some defensive stuff that are exclusive now to one spec only (brews), etc.
That’s highly subjective. I agree that monk is fun to play, but it feels not complete at all! Any monk who played this class in several xpacs will probably agree with me.
The whole problem with the Class design is that they are made for the Casual audience and they are homogenized at the Max.
Even if we get these skills , we still have these 2-4 spells for damage or healing that do the same but have different names and animations.
The source that characters use - Mana , Points or Rage are just pointless , the whole rotten and perverted idea of the modern WoW is to spam mindlessly and feel the pseudo-arcade , pseudo-dynamic feeling.
The Game is trash and the spells we get in the next expansion wont change anything.
I agree, but the point is in a quick introduction to “unpruning - class abilities coming back”, it would have been strange to have:
Paladin auras back!
Shaman more totems!
Shattering throw!
Eye of the beast !
Stun back on fist of fury !
Its just not the same category imo.
Theres (at least im hoping):
-on one hand class mechanics being reworked / tweaked, like each expansion (changing how abilities, rotations, and talents flow together)
-On the other, adding oldschool spells back for flavor (that shouldnt really have that much gameplay impact)
While the changes you mention belong in the first category, the announcement (lacking info on monks) was on the second. And i dont think there are any real noteworthy monk spells that could be considered in that second category over the first, other than the summon spirits and brew, but those arent really ‘iconic’ to the class, so that might be why they werent mentionned.
(in my opinion the more ‘iconic’ monk stuff is rolls, transcendance, legsweep, and karma)
Why? It was basically a core function of ww monks. It’s actually the same like bringing back frostshock to rshamans.
The only reason why they removed it, was m+ and pruning in general in PvP → over all the whole design for PvP seems like, they wanted to remove possibilities to stop casts (maybe they have listen too much to “world of meleecraft” guys). Why else would they try to compensate it with parry and 90% slow instead?
The issue is, that they weren’t strictly enough (rogue still 20 sec on kidney with still 6 sec duration, while fof stun is gone and ls increased to 60 sec cd) AND that they brought at the same time more stuff for caster (the whole destro lock defense with different schools, instants, etc. / ele with lasso which is like fof stun on a high range and he can run around even breaking los and it did even more dmg (still do?!) than fof / the typical mage stuff).
So in case of unpruning, fof stun is essentially for ww to survive.
Karma is ww exclusive, fof stun is basically the same to identify the specc. He had it since release and dropped it only in this xpac. It was an experiment, it failed - no reason to not bring it back.
To be clear, im not saying they shouldnt return stun on fof.
Im saying that the original announcement for unpruning (with the auras/totems examples) was more directed towards unpruning old iconic class abilities that were removed.
No reason to mention misc. class reworks there, and just because they dont talk about that (or any other change to any other ability for any class) doesnt mean nothing will happen.
Im 99.99% sure that the returning abilities mentionned at blizzcon arent the ONLY changed for classes coming in Shadowlands.
Whenever a class has training wheels abilities/passives (e.g. Monk healing elixir in Legion, Paladin autotrinket/auto bubble in Legion, Warrior second wind in MoP) that require very little skill to use/any and are insanely rewarding for little to no cost, it throws off the meta.
My wishlist (specifically) for classes:
Warrior:
Shattering throw (confirmed) - A unique ability that makes us the 2nd only class able to remove immunities.
Charge stun baseline/talented - Vry self explanatory. Great disruption/initiation tool, more reliable than the root and sets it apart from other mobility abilities.
Stances (Reworked, but returned). - Make using stances part of your rotation/self explanatory, at least for arms which is supposed to be in the middle of fury & prot.
Weapons: I’m unsure if it’d be fair gearing wise if warriors have to have different weapons in their bags to play optimally, unless the bonuses would be significant. A better option would be to allow us to just stick to 1 weapon, but let us transmog different appearances on our weapons based on our stance.
A reliable self healing tool (e.g. enraged regeneration) for all specs alongside victory rush. - Quite self explanatory. It won’t make warrior immortal. It won’t take away from other classes fantasy, just as hunters exhiliration/rogues crimson vial (which was directly taken from warriors, btw) don’t. It however makes solo gameplay way more fun which outweighs all the negatives.
ARMS mastery: Bring back raw damage increase. Make arms a heavy hitting spec once more. When you get to execute range, execute actually does what it’s supposed to do. Overpower should feel overpowering, punishing classes like rogues/demon hunters, as it did for majority of the lifespan of WoW without breaking the game. Arms should be all about high sustained damage from constant pressure, with fury keeping its more spikier, burstier gameplay.
Give us a baseline stun. Throwdown, Stormbolt, shockwave/any other idea will do.
A few outliers that I know won’t hapen but I’d want anyway:
Make mortal wounds effect baseline for the whole class. Prot, fury, arms.
Bring back gladiator stance!
For other classes:
Priest: Bring back spectral guise/improve on it.
Bring back devouring plague & shadow orbs for shadow priests.
Hunter:
All abilities castable while moving. Mobility’s hunters trademark thing and should be where the class excels, regardless of the spec.
Turn beastmastery into the pet spec like it should be (see Rexxar).
Turn survival back to what it was pre-legion: A dot kiting survival spec.
Bring back specific pet family abilities.
DK: Presences.
Sorry mister, but those changes would warrior bring back over the top! Be thankful for shattering throw (even when I’m unsure if that is a good idea) but selfheal again and more pure damage bypassing defense cds of rogue/dh - why would anyone wants to play anything else?
Even in it’s current state, its pretty strong. The survivability isn’t the best, but compared with the dmg and pressure (sharpen etc.) a warrior can generate, it’s outbalanced imo…
If they would make all your wishes come true, they really have to bring some cool stuff back to the other melees, so we don’t only see warriors fighting.
P. S.: Healing Elixiers in it’s normal form were actually fine, only the passive effect (auto trigger at 35%) was busted. Anyways, with Reverse Harm they have a solid replace for it.