Nice to see Glacial Spike and Ray of Frost go untouched in pvp yet again
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- Frost mage untouched?
- DH still left in C tier?
- Hpal untouched?
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frost still aint boomie level even after nerfs…
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On whos list is DH on C tier? D:
https://i.imgur.com/iRETnwr.png
So tiers is based of representation?
Does that mean BM, MM, Arcane, Aug evoker is C tiers or extremely close to it?
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It means a class with 1 dps spec has nothing to switch to incase his spec is bad.
Most people who main Mage can play all 3 specs. Most Warriors can play both Fury and Arms just as good.
But what happens when you have 1 dps spec which is not good?
So you are still saying the spec is C tier due to representation.
Just say that you base your entire argument on tier lists on representation.
Classes having specs thats “better” does not automatically means those “specs” representation floods to the other 1-2.
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its just dh and warrior mains using the tactic of crying that their specs are bad even though they’re actually really good classes because it kind of works, it ends up with ridiculous, unnecessary buffs sometimes resulting in awful metas
they used the same argument in bfa when dh was completely busted but a lower in representation (at least not 1st) because nobody likes to play this class even when it is in a god status
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Last time I checked people play classes which are good and don’t play classes which aren’t.
Maybe you live in some alternate reality where Disc priest is equal to Holy paladin as a healer or Outlaw Rogue is better than Sub rogue. I don’t know.
I don’t need to list the amount of bad design problems DH has.
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So you are saying specs are bad because rerollers flock to the busted ones? Should we buff all the ones which have less representation so they also get flooded? Or can it just be that DH might not be the most played spec in general?
I guess retri is just so massively broken beyond belief then?
Sadly I live in the reality where I dont base something on my own assumptions and feeling of wanting something to be broken to be viable and fun. Majority of high ranking PvPers tier lists says DH is A tier. Skillcapped just released a new tier list aswell that points them at A-A+ tier. So I guess you just mean they are all wrong and DH is just trash in itself?
According to your alternate reality outlaw rogue outperforms DH insanely hard because of sub rogues existence. Because they can switch.
Thats something else and alot of those bad design problems could be things you personally feel might others feel its okey or good.
Theres enough warriors on this forum that only believe they are playable if they are on top of the food chain and counters everything.
We dont need DHs to feel the same.
If you look at the screenshot, Ret paladin has over x3 the representation of DH.
Ret paladin is not OP right now. It’s balanced.
I never mentioned Warriors. But Warriors do have x4 representation of DH as well. And Warriors aren’t even considered strong right now.
So you have specs which are FOTM / OP / Reroll worthy.
Then you have specs which are OK and not OP.
And then you have specs which are literally struggling in the meta.
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So struggling is a bad thing.
Some specs are overtuned that needs to be brought down, but you are demanding yourself to get buffed, quite high considering you base yourself of C tier.
So my question is, have you looked at the PvP ladder above 2400+ rating?
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Above 2400 rating? Because that represents PvP and the community?
Or do you mean those DH players who got above 2400 in a Moonkin’s backpack during Boomy meta?
Why are you even arguing on this, ok I get it you have some bias on hating the spec or something.
Nobody ever asked for specs to be OP. I would actually love DH to have the same spot in the meta as Ret paladin, have meaningful buttons. Not in S tier, not in C tier either.
The very fact that new players of the class get tab-targetted into instantly dying and then deleting their character or higher rated players of the class getting demolished by FOTM crap says enough.
But I guess you wanna argue no matter what cause you hate the class. Be it your way. I never said anything bad about Ret paladin players on the forum before the rework complaining about problems, I never told them they’re delusional - Ret had a lot of problems and it was true.
You base everything on representation. So I looked at higher rating representation that they could achieve. We could even go lower to 2100. We could even go lower to 1800.
You seem to not know which rating you want to talk about, just active representation that usually favors rerollers.
You can use that argument on every spec then.
I dont have bias or hate the spec. I dislike people using representation to try to force to their view on why they should be S tier.
I really wonder how many high rankers base their tier list the same as you and put DH at C tier because of representation.
If you want DH to fullfill the same kind of niche rets has you will have to rework the entire spec, and I highly doubt majority of DHs would love your suggestion.
So you want DH to be FOTM. Its quite simple to read between the lines.
I dont hate the spec, ive lvled one. Ive played one. Didnt rly like it but I also dont care about it. Same with alot of specs.
But its your personal feeling that something is C tier it has to be C tier.
Undermining your spec because of assumptions and personal feelings is one of the worst things to do, since I guess you might be one of the ppl who played DH when it was busted and felt it was perfectly fine? Defending it maybe?
Theres been Ret defenders who defended every single nerf that barely dented the issue with them after 10.0.7 release.
Theres been arms defenders who see no issues at all instead try to point direction on other specs because they believe they are perfectly fine at S tier.
Theres some people who believe representation defines tier list. But also refuse to use that representation when it does not go according to their view.
Same with statistics.
So no, the only real spec I dislike, not hate, is arms warriors just due to how oppressive I feel they are, but thats also personal feeling.
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So by your logic specs which are played the least across all brackets are completely fine, require no changes, and are clearly not underperforming?
And specs which are played the most across all brackets are also not clearly overperforming?
It’s also not my personal feelings. I’ve played the spec for thousands of games this season. Most of the games that you tab target a DH with Blur on cd = dead. I’ve played it for over 3 years to 2400 or higher every season.
I don’t want DH to be OP. Start of season 1 was stupid, Hunt doing 300k crits etc.
I just want quality of life changes, more towards defensives than dmg.
Most games even when you are completely free to pump dmg, your dmg is easily outhealed or CC-ed or disregarded.
But I’m done arguing with you.
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My logic is that I dont trust random people saying a tier list is based on active representation that only shows their “proof” on something being “bad”.
According to your picture, that would mean these specs needs buff:
Auv/Dev evoker, DH, BM/MM hunters, ele shaman, arcane mage (since its still lower representation in your picture).
So we buff all those aswell then? They clearly are so bad because of representation.
But I guess you cannot see the problem with using that kind of statistics.
So you have talked with alot of other DH players that feel its C tier? Can you tell me which ones/high rankers?
The way you argue is moving towards that direction.
Adding defensives is one thing, but calling yourself C tier because of your personal view and how you define is due to representation is still horrible.
And thats why you managed to get to 2400 RSS rating? Your spec is so horrible that everything you do is easily outhealed and everything. Man. That must been some weird way you got that rating if so.
2100 rating in 3s aswell, I guess a boomie carried you then?
Thats prob for the better, since I dont take BS as easily as alot of ppl do. I dont use active representation to force my view.
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alter time doesn’t heal, it reverts the damage youm take since the moment you cast it
now i know what you thinking “bruh bruh, u press it, and then all my damage useless, thats a heal bruh”
i know, but if im 10%, i can’t “heal” myself with that can i ?
then i have 1 shield, and if i spec into mass barrier i can get a 2minute second shield
i hope we are not counting tempest barrier 3% of my hp as shield as a heal…
the only real heal mage has is iceblock 2 talents healing you, which becomes partially useless if good priest MD on time expecting your block
glacial spike doesn’t seem too strong tbh, ray of frost i could see it being nerfed by a solid 25% in pvp, that or nerf the talent that makes it strong
It counts as healing in details and afaik even on scoreboard. Same with shields, regardless how high they are.