Class PvP Tuning – 1 August

yeah but common sense shouldn’t count it as healing its a very situational spell that can become broken af, or completely useless depending on the situation

Alter time is only useless if you press it on low hp. Or decide to munch multiple purges in open field. Proper usage = broken as hell always.

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If uve alrdy used altar time and ure 10% hp, u either traded poorly or put urself in a bad position. Altar time is one of the strongest abillities for its cooldown especially nowadays with it reseting blink/shimmer and displacement. A good mage will either pre altar a go just to delay it or trinket altar before they go low. The only counter to altar is RNG purge, which most of the time fails. I mean DH has a 15 second purge thats 1 debuff, shaman all plays double purge with a long cd, so u have a very resonable chance of keeping ur altar. Not to mention spamm pollying during goes to stop dmg. I mean what ever way u look at it, altar is a major defensive and very toxic into non purge classes. It basically lets u see how much dmg u could take and if u would die or not, then being able to save urself and negate everything that happened.

i guess hunters have tranq, but thats the least of ur worries vs hunters. Same with SP i mean to have a good chance at getting altar they would need to MD which can be stopped. or lined/blinked.

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i prealter, into bolt, gets purged, im forced to block and i have alter down, into shattering thrown aaaaand im on the run

u tlak scenarios, everything is just theorical up there, i often get destroyed from 1 single dispell, and i often use alter more for mobility than healing, but then again i rly don’t play arena

also doesn’t reset displacement, only shimmer/blink

That’s a cool bg story.

Alter Time isn’t in details or on scoreboard (unless your version of details has access to black magic and isn’t the standard one).

That is such a stupid take. Mages die sometimes just like any other class, at newbie level or at “pro” level. Even with a perfect use of Alter Time and the best position, once it is on CD their HP can still go down and reach 10% or below if the enemy team decides they want to kill the Mage.

And when it is on CD ? Be ause with your dumb logic Arms is immortal vs melees, it has parry and can pre parry anything. And hey, since we ignore CD, you have parry 100% of the time for all goes, so just press parry, completely immortal !

You are allowed to not be stupid and change talents when you see a Mage is in the enemy team. It takes one click.

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If you die as a Mage while having access to like 5 shimmers in a row with Alter, Invis 60% dmg reduction wall, Ice block, x2 Frost novas, DB, perma slows, Blast wave knockback, reduced Counterspell CD and whatever the hell I missed out here…

I am sorry. You were unable to survive with a completely and utterly bloated defensive and CC kit. Tetris might be a better consideration.

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Sorry, but participation does barely show of how strong a spec is. People tend to play S tier specs, that is why those specs are usually more played than others, but you can’t copy the concept and say which specs are bad.

Also is DH barely played in general or not?

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Yeah it is barely played.

There’s no reason to play it when you can play literally any other melee and achieve better results. One can argue Outlaw Rogue is worse, but like 80% of Rogue players are Rogue players in general and can easily swap to another spec.

I’ll give an example with myself for Solo Shuffle. For 2.4 on warlock I needed about 4 times less games than on DH. Warlock is one of my alt classes. It was infinitely easier to carry the games with, there was some kind of win condition, and I didn’t feel like I could die in 1 stun.

All I felt on DH was praying to god eventually the other team chokes to random dmg or my teammate oneshots them randomly. Thousands of games.

Took me like a day to push 2100 on Ret in shuffle with blue gear. Ret isn’t even OP. I just have a Sanc and Freedom keybind for removing CC off my healer, ahem, buttons which are useful.

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It was also not played that much even in DF prepatch where it was the most broken spec since game release in 2004.

But still you were able to get 2.4 on DH which means that the class is competitive.

Look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6O0OgkQ8NY

This tier list does pretty much match up with statistic analysis of shuffle ladder. Some might be higher, others lower, but DH is in a solid spot. Not too good but also far away from being bad.

But after 558 games on WW, which is considered to be S tier, you still are 2.2. Does that mean now, Ret is better than WW? Or Lock? Or does that just mean, that you might handle classes better, that have range damage like lock and ret?

I mean, I also played Ret and got quite high this season while chilling. Personally I also feel like a lot more stressed when playing a melee for w/e reason. Being able to keep distance and/or kite melees into a bad spot is a lot more chilling from my perspective.

But what does that have anything to do with DH in tier lists? Your personal impression might be, that DH is bad, but objectively spoken it’s quite fine.

Yes, I am 2.2 on WW. Which I have been playing for the first time in my life since a little over a week ago. While I have played DH for 3 years.

WW is OP right now, but is arguably also the most miserable class to fight a Mage and Holy paladin with, which are also hyper meta. Meaning I oftentimes get 3-3 lobbies with Hpal + non-hpal healers. Ret is definitely easier to win Solo Shuffle games with than WW, because nothing really hard counters you except maybe Shadow Priest.

Getting 2.4 on a class doesn’t mean it is competitive. There are players of literally EVERY spec in the entire game with 2.4 rating.

Mentioning past seasons holds zero relevance to the current season. DH was OP for like 1 month at the release of DF, received 50 nerfs afterwards, and that was it. I don’t want it to be OP like that again either. I just want meaningful changes to talents which are useless.

But as I have stated in the past, it is borderline pointless to argue with people who have a bias towards the class you are talking about. Either they have never played it or don’t understand its problems. Go ask Tren on stream about the state of the class he is #1 in the world with. Watch a few of his games and see for yourself the amount of effort he has pull off to even stand a chance against some other specs.

Its not laziness it just only we are care about only the pvp not pve. (story, 3 button gamestyle etc is boring)

It is good, great even and definitely S tier, but not OP! OP was boomkin for most part of the season, as it was a tier above everyone else.

But isn’t that exactly you? Bias about DH being bad while basically the majority objectively says that it is decent. Not too bad, not too good, just solid.

Not being S tier doesn’t mean you are C tier!

You did a 93 shuffles or so since then? Is that even possible with that queue times? That is like 13-14 shuffle a day, every day.

Well, I completely understand what you mean and I dont rly disregard it and it could def have been worded better even if it was intended as a “small joke” x)

I don’t have personal Bias.

I play like 9 different specs. Including 3 healers. I would say I have a pretty decent viewpoint on how classes are right now.

But apparently every Classic-wow char checkpvp detective on this forum thinks that when you are asking for meaningful talent changes and changes to defensives you are asking for something to jump to S tier.

I didn’t disagree to The Hunt nerfs in s1. Dmg was absurd. In fact I was cringing my eyes out at potato DH players getting 2400 in Shuffle while playing like complete chimps. You get that feeling when you main something long enough and see FOTM rerollers winning with 0 effort not knowing what they are doing = cringe.

I didn’t disagree to Destro nerfs to instants when its my 2nd most played spec, that was also stupid. Same feeling for all the completely boosted Destro locks.

I didn’t disagree to Ret paladins crying about dying before the rework cause you did, in fact, force their bubble within a few seconds of each game cause their other defensives were complete crap.

That is called not being biased.

Now go crawl back to your hidden character Classic wow cave checking people on CD, cause being anonymous on the internet is hard.

Dh is an easy A tier.

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Nice to see that the tier list agrees with the place I put warriors (the video came out after we discussed this in forum, so it’s funny they had the same melee tier list as my previous judgement for shuffle). Warriors are terrible, because the game meta in general is just broken. DH was already considered OP before this patch, and nothing actually changed other than other specs becoming even more broken…

Sooooo A tier is now the definition of being terrible.

I remember when A tier were actually considered viable/good.
But times change I guess.

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It’s relative. We are only better than memes like frost dk and we have no alternative for our class. Rets are only a little weak, because there is a holy paladin every game and people have the forbearance debuff, not because their kit is bad. Also, the lowest tier on this list is B, and the things in B are straight up terrible comparatively. When everything is broken though in S or OP tier, then the rest is weak comparatively, especially when there is a frost mage and ww monk every single game.

So instead of bringing the others down youd rather get yours up by buffing it/changing it to get it stronger?
Thats been your argument before.

Im just tired when people keeps calling for buffs everywhere instead of wanting the game to be actually fixed.