Class Tuning Incoming – 20 December

Community General Discussion
63

Much appreciated buffs to un-used talents and totems.

However, im still doubtful that Healing Stream Totem will replace cloud burst. You can buff HST all you want, but the issue is not how much it heals. In fact, it already pumps more HPS than cloudburst, and people still use cloudburst. And will continue to do so even if you nerf again.

The problem with Healing stream totem is:

  • (A) It heals 1 person. You cant choose that person. It could be the tank instead of the DPS that is at 1% health and needs a heal… it could be someone at 90% health… You cant triage with this totem so its useless.

  • And (B) it heals for a wet noodle and only really begins to do what its supposed to do 10s later, when living stream starts to kick in. Which more often than not, its either too late or it over-heals. This is not an issue by itself, but given how Blizz has designed damage this expansion, it is. You cant just leave people at 5% life for 6s until it does meaningful HPS…

If you really want to make HST useful, you have to change the whole core concept of it.

Cloud Burst should be for the following circumstances: You need a massive, INSTANT burst of healing for some mechanics. And Healing Stream should be for: The totem helps you recover from damage, by slowly healing the party to full over a span of 10s. Starting HIGH, and ending low.

Both totems should help you recover from both ST and AoE massive damage, in 2 different ways, instead of Chain Heal Spamming. And should allow you to do other things, be more mana efficient, DPS, ect…

=========== Suggestions to make it competitive to Cloud Burst ===============

Change how Living Stream talent works. There are 2 options:

  • Either (A) make it start HIGH and slowly decay.

This is because damage is so bursy this season (Blizzard design) that you cant just leave a player at 10% life for 6s with 0 heals. You need to stabilize him first, and then you can do other things. This solution would do just that. Get 1 individual from 10% to 40/50% in the first 1/2s, and then heal the rest in the remaining time.

  • OR (B) remove the stacking buff, buff the healing by 50% and change the living stream to heal 2 people instead of 1.

Make it sort of a “background” healing which would simply replace some casts here or there. Easy to use, and useful in ~ most of circumstances. But the brunt of the healing would be done by hand (Chain or Riptide or HS), but at-least it wont over-heal as much.

So if the core issue of the totem is solved, THEN you can begin to tweek the numbers and buff it / nerf it by whatever is necessary.

Thats how I would make it competitive.

1 Like
64

So DK and warrior gets ignored but braindead specs like ret get a 3% buff across the board… Theyre not the only ones struggling to keep up

Why wait weeks with these stupid balance changes when third party sites are doing half your job for you already ;/

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65

Yes…because warrior is not braindead at all…absolutely at all.

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66

Honestly again I think the forums needs a rule where if you spout rubbish you get a months holiday.

If you look at the top 150 keys you will see just 2 hunters. Lets extend that to top 300, and its just 9.

Reality is that hunters actually tail off at high keys. AT lower keys yeah they are great (Although too low and it doesn’t seem like it either).
M+ to one side, looking at raid and the recent data shows BM at least in 7th spot for overall dmg (Boss and cleave) and 9th for pure Boss.

Clearly massively out of control

Meanwhile though if you’re talking M+ Augment still is represented almost every single time. out of the same 300 runs, I honestly cannot easily count how many there were but 95+ % representation. Mage too is represented a hell of a lot.

However raid wise mage isn’t used a lot and its typical to usually only have 1 evoker in the group I believe.

These changes are clearly aimed at raiding, but the side effects will have a big affect on M+ at higher levels, and mage will likely have 100% representation as a result. DH will likely drop from its current 93% + to who knows.

Again, non of this is scientific data, its just me looking at multiple things to gain a rounded view instead of applying a very narrow lens of a niche scenario and crying like a little kid about that.

I wished others would do the same some times before whining.

1 Like
67

Hunter has an arguable problem with the way it’s aoe damage is delivered and how that lines up so conveniently with the average player’s pull cadence in mid level keys. Again, arguable. However you’re correct that the spec from an overall damage tuning perspective is in a fine place.

Fire looks set to be S+ tier in mythic+ for the third season in a row.

68

Were they not also in that spot in SL ? and BFA ?

M+ for the most part at higher levels always does tend to feel like its a playstyle for just a few specs with how frequently they are at the top and how rarely others are able to compete.

Something has to give at some point because tuning around raid, for it to so drastically affect M+ for me clearly isn’t working so well, or at least any longer.

It is only fun replay content for as long as people feel they are able to progress and not just hitting the vault piñata and so if the same few specs are the ones constantly able to hit the high content, it is possibly another reason why that part of the content is losing players.

But this is simply theorising now.

69

Happens all the time when a new FOTM is known, many people mass re-roll.

1 Like
70

DH tanks are not exactly bad, nor are they broken.
This is one of the very rare times VDH performs near the top. For me what lets VDH down is they are ultra squishy until they are in a set rotation which relies on things being grouped up and souls being available.

Unlike other tanks VDH down have instant AOE aggro of stuff that’s spread and although we can run into a pack that’s already grouped and spirit bomb it for easy aggro if you need to gather multiple groups and only have souls for the 1 bomb it gets a little more iffy. Especially when you have some players popping cd’s, selecting a target that may have only had a simple throw glaive and begin blasting like their life depended on it.

Then there’s the weakness from behind and NPC’s lately having this habit of constantly trying to walk around me to hit me from behind. If this happens, especially on fort bolstered, it can mean snipe kill.

But for me its about figuring out how to play around this and improving. Every tank has their niggles I guess

71

Not compared to ret no… Ret makes BM hunter looks complex.

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72

SL season 1 and 2 yes, 3 and 4 no.

BFA season 1 was frost in keys, then it switched to fire and the spec was obscene by the end of the expansion yes.

73

Finally some WW love, about time.

Don’t understand the big Mage buffs tho, at least in M+ theyre already pretty much meta, hope we dont get a repeat from season 2.

74

What i dont get how ist determined which Specs need what buff. When WE Look at meta Sites (Like Subcreation, u.gg, rio or warcraftlogs)Specs Like WW and Feral are Side by Side in m+ Meta at the bottom of the Tierlist. Yet WW gets 2 Buffs in a row and Not small ones. And Feral is ignored. Sure WW is bottom in Raid too. But Feral is Not that great either.
Also why cant Feral incarn finally get fixed that the CD Resets and the Buffs stays, Like it does for Guardian and Balance.

The buffs seem kinda random when i Take m+ and Raid into consideration.

75

WW gets some well deserved love!

Ret 3% aura again is laughable. You guys in the dev team just dont care. 9 out of 10 times you go with a tiny aura buff which is meaningless then in 90th percentile ret paladin is second to last in mythic (only augmentation is below them which is supposed to be the new “support style” spec so naturally terrible dps) and rets with 90th percentile HC are third to last sharing the spot with a warrior spec.
Do you really think 3% aura will redeem this situation when the top ~5 specs are 20%+ ahead?
And then you throw a tiny nerf at 1 out 3 top performing rogue specs?
You did a “rework” in the middle of the expansion instead of during beta because you dont care and you dont pay someone to have a dedicated dev for the spec like you do with warriors or druids etc.
And you did the rework at the end of a season when its meaningless because everyone is done progression apart from hyper casual players and 9th alts.
And even then you did the usual thing you do with ret you ignored any and all feedback, you boosted their damage to the heavens which no one asked for, you didnt address the mobility issue for 3 expansions now and you quickly nerfed back the damage over 3-4 weeks gradually putting back ret paladin in the middle of the pack around the 14th place so by the time the new season started ret paladins were again medicore at best.

Paladin players should just quit for 6 months together to make a small dent in the sub money - i know blizz dont care because they said in interview they are after the whales that are spending hundreds each month in the shop and the sub money is just a drop in the water to them but when a sizeable chunk of your playerbase is constantly mistreated and you dont listen when you promised for the 100th time you will listen to feedback it is just awful player experience that you mistreat a spec since Legion constantly.

This “tuning” feels like you had some temp workers forced to work before and on the Holidays and the boss called them to do something so it can be put into a patch note to pretend they are working.

People should vote with their wallets and quit for a few months if they main ret so Blizz might actually start to care when people who been mistreated for years are fed enough to leave.

And you dare to write that you are closely monitoring data :DDDDDD

Monitor this data of actual players fam and you should go find your glasses first because apparently something is wrong with your eyesight:

warcraftlogs.
com/zone/statistics/35#sample=7&dataset=95

1 Like
76

“After closely monitoring data on class performance”
LMAO - are you actually real, Rsham has been mana hungry for god knows how long, Ret, WW and DK’s have seen 0 to barely any gameplay in high keys, hell some people decline you on weekly 20’s with those specs and you buff mages which are doing close to DH damage right now. Credit - WW got some changes, but probably not enough really.

Please, hire somebody who has some passion to make reasonable changes

Edit: AUGMENT is still actively allowing you to jump a key level or two based on the defensiveness it provides. Nice one.

We enter an age of a required Augment + the busted DPS of the patch + 1 free spot for everyone who isn’t any of the above-mentioned specs.

Just so this post is not only hate but something positive - you did keep healer balance relatively fine, UNTIL it was decided that Rdruid can do 120k+ ST :slight_smile: sure

3 Likes
77

can you rework shadow please.

78

Blizzard what are you doing. Frost mage was on the world 1st 30 m+. You were like, that doesn’t look right BUFF them !!. Please please please stop this nonsense. What about ele shaman pathetic play style, balance druid survivability. You are making the same mistake you have done back in shadowland buffing the hell out of destro locks but with mages this time. Seriously shocked about this round of buffs looks like you are clueless.

3 Likes
79

Feral is the biggest victim of Ww monks even before the previous flat buff, and now it happens again, I didnt wonna say anything but now that this happens I will say it:
buffing them without buffing feral should be considered psychological torture.
I rest my case.
Also thanks for nothing.

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80

you can just go back to league of legends if you so incist on having 4 buttons and no macros.
Jesus freaking Christ, dude u made the whole forum wet with tears over being demoted from S + to A+ tear.
Give me a freaking break.

1 Like
81

Why is this only aimed at enhancement? Elemental is equal less tanky. In general shamans could even use more help for defensives for PvE. A 2nd charge on astral shift would help a lot.

82

They won’t.

Fire is frankly not that great, frost is better, but it’s not a top tier.