Most tanks that I healed in FL 12-14 were dying on that boss, even with babysitting…
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Yeah no clue. I’m not gonna push higher on ppala till they buff them so can’t comment higher, but i’ll try pushing up as my bear i just geared.
It’s been lolbearmode up to 13s so far
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Bli$$ard. Warrior is complete dead trash. When will you actually fix that class.
Or there is only paladins/dk/boomies and shamans.
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I agree. Altho I feel like my resto shaman main is in a good spot already, I cant speak for the top 5%.
Mommas boss you have to absolutely make sure to kick the adds. And focus the adds instead of the boss.
I dont know what are the names of the mechanics, but the tank can be hit twice by the tank-buster if the adds are alive, or if they manage to cast. And that is what kills tanks.
I think that’s it. I might be wrong though. But ever since I kick the adds, I haven’t had any issues with tanks dying. I had more issues with DDs not killing the adds.
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Just FYI PPpala does not have Massive aoe silence it is a 5 target kick at max potential, it only kicks the first targets.
And you can not control who it kicks so if you have more then 5 targets it can go for one of the mobs that is not casting and do zero.
And yet it is the worst tank right now with the exact same tools the exact same damage reductions as last patch.
It was mostly damage that was nerfed into this patch and it changed it from Meta to the worst tank even brewmaster does better.
Fun fact all shaman specs have the same amount of cc or more as prot paladin yet you do not act like shaman should be nerfed in damage and healing for that.
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Those warrior buffs are so good, i just stopped playing.
First i never said they should nerf Ppala and Dh. What i said is that blizzard should normalize utility across all tanks.
Second. You gotta be kidding me. Shamans have 1 kick. And then Cap Totem and Thunderstrike do not silence mobs. They just delay their re-cast. It dosent count as a kick.
And lets be honest here. That is the ONLY thing shamans have. People like you keep saying that shaman utility is through the roof, but dont understand that having USELESS utility dosent count as having utility.
As a RShaman, the only thing all that “shaman utility” gives me is having to go an extra mile dodging worthless talents like Tremor Totem in the talent tree to get to marginally useful talents like +3% Fire Damage.
And paladins, together with priests, are 2 classes who every single piece of utility they have is useful in every single scenario they play in. THAT is the difference between a paladin and a shaman.
OK. You got your melee kick. + Avengers Shield which is already the 2nd kick (on a 15s CD) on your target, + whoever it bounces to.
Vs… compare that to anyone else. Compare that to any other tank.
DH was buffed. Thats the thing. Also… DPS? Keys are being done with 4m left on the timer. Tank DPS is NOT the limiting factor here. Its not even a factor to take into consideration.
Tanks could do healer DPS for all we care. It would not change a thing. ALL that matters, is surviving. Both the tank, and the party.
So its PPala —> DH —> PPala —> DH… and it will continue to be this way as long as they keep that key utility.
The only seasons in which some other tank will be given the chance to shine are those seasons in which BOTH dh and PPala are nerfed to the ground. Which would not be fair to those specs. Dont you agree?
THEREFORE: We need to normalize the mass CC ability of tanks. Either they ALL have it. Or none of them do. Simple as that.
This right here is your problem you are now cherry picking Hardcore.
This is what i am telling you the bounces do not do ANY form of interrupt at all.
I can make a massive comparison but that would be nitty gritty and there is no point in doing that here.
you are so heavily nitpicking that it is incredibly bad take you have here.
To be like you that is the shortest kick in the game and it is ranged.
Does a stop twice
They last longer then many kicks do on mobs.
YET you keep talking about 5 MIN Single target cooldowns as MASSIVE BIG INSANE utility
in a 30min dungeon you can do a 5min cooldown if used on cooldown 6 times total.
You talk about Blessing of Protection something that does a Physical immunity as this incredibly OP thing.
Yet it really only has a few ueses here and there.
You claim this is OP strong yet you dismiss the power level of Cap totem and Thunderstrike and even the shortest kick in the game.
This is just factually false and you know it You have BoP as you have claimed in the past to be OP yet it is ONLY works on Physical damage.
In raiding it has generally had usefulness around 1 time an expansion.
Love how you say this While at the EXACT same time YOU are doing this to other classes YOU are doing this!
You say this while REALITY tells us a COMPLETELY different story!
Prot pala is the Lowest Raider IO tank in the GAME right now.
If your claim was true this would NOT be the case so stop it.
Acutally look up the data next time and you will learn.
Facts is that Prot paladin is the Loweest out of all the tanks in the GAME you are just wrong here!
Your WHOLE conclusion here has the Basesis your biased opinion.
I know you have this narrative in your head for some reason the DH and prot paladin over everything else.
You still do not seem to want to talk about what actual real world data tells us instead you follow what you personally believe.
What actual real world data tells us is that Prot paladin is the worst tank while Veng Dh is the strongest tank, if prot paladin utility was so OP as you talk about and dps does not have any meaning whatsoever like you talk about then this makes zero sense.
If we take what you say on face value the actual real world data does not make sense at all.
Can you try to understand the data instead of just blindly following your own biases?
I am sorry for the long post i did not want to make it longer by going into details.
Cheerypicking? Does PWarrior have anything similar to that? NOPE. GDruid? NOPE. BM? NOPE. Only DH. And DH is “on par” with that department because he has 2 1m CD sygils. If he had only 1, he would be on-par with all other tanks.
However. Is PWarrior tankier? YES. Its THE tankiest at the moment. Does PWarrior do a lot of damage? YES. Its THE class that does the most DPS. Does PWarrior have mobility? Its 2nd in that department…
So why isent PWarrior meta? If its the tankiest. Does the most DPS. Most mobile. Has stuns. CCs. Kicks. All the good stuff any tank might want to have…
Thats right. Its because… he dosent have a 2nd kick. KICK. Which silences mobs. You dont seem to know the difference:
Excuse me? Do you have plater installed? Cause you can see the massive difference bettween a kick/silence and a stun.
- Venom Volley of a mob has an 20s CD. So the mob will cast this every 20s. \
If you kick or silence the mob, the CD of this cast will start counting. So the “kick” lasts 20s. Or whatever the CD on that spell is.
If you stun or knock the mobs. It will NOT restart the CD of that cast. So it will re-cast “venom volley” the instant the stun is off.
So NO. A kick == re-starts the CD. A stun == delays the cast by 3s. Kicks and silences are CLEARLY superior. In every aspec. In ANY scenario.
Not to mention: Kicks and silence == no DR. Stuns/knockbaks YES DR.
Shamans USED to be OP beyond reasoning in DF. When our cap totem and thunderstrike counted as a “kick” and re-set the internal CD of spells of mobs. In DF that was CRAZY OP. I could solo all the required CC of certain dungeons on my own…
But that is NOT the case anymore in TWW. So all the specs that had Stuns got a hard nerf. In exchange, blizzard promissed to reduce the number of casters in a dungeon. Unlike Nokud for example, that every single pack had like… 10 casters.
But they did not. They did not change this. THEREFORE, all the classes with the possibility of mass kicks of any kind, even random ones, instantly shot up in value…
So you acuse me of cherrypicking with the kicks, and yet here you are. Arguing over and over about 1 our of the miriad of utility spells the PPala has.
How about a dispel. How about simple off-healing on the party. Freedom… so many things… Can a warrior do those? NOPE. Can a GDruid do those? Maybe… but not as well. Not anymore. Can a BM? Absolutely not. And DK? HAHA… dosent even have a raid buff.
As for the phisical damage BoP… I can tell you what its for: BL + PI + a DD busting out all of its CDs… has a really high chance of robing you agro. You can use BoP on that DD every 5 minutes non-stop and that DD (if he knows what he is doing) will be able to bust out 30M DPS in 10s and melt the pack with out fear of being 1-shot.
Its as if you did not play at all in S1…
Let me remind you of a small little thing that PPalas could negate with their utility that no other tank could. And Blizzard thought it was too much and had to buff all other tanks as a result… :
https://www.wowhead.com/news/threat-buffed-for-tanks-in-patch-11-0-7-hotfixes-355151
That is where your physical damage BoP was used.
Hehe… Il just TLDR all this discussion:
Avenger’s Shield
Talent
30 yd range
Instant 15 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin
Hurls your shield at an enemy target, dealing (75.3523% of Attack power) Holy damage, interrupting and silencing the non-Player target for 3 sec, and then jumping to 2 additional nearby enemies
INTERRUPTING. This is key. Because it resets the internal CD of the casters. Just like a regular kick. So its a 2nd kick. On a SINGLE target. The “bounces” also kick. Nobody else has this. ONLY PPala.
Not only do the other tanks NOT have access to this. But neither does Ret or Holy Pally. Unlike Cap Totem of Shaman, which is accessible to any of the 3 specs.
And my whole argument is:
WHY. Simply give other tanks this option. Or take it away from PPally. (AND DH. Lets not forget them, cause this whole discussion began with DH tank). Simply change Avenger’s Shield to “silences”. And thats it. Not “silence AND interrupt”.
OR. Give warriors that option. Simply say that shockwave now stuns AND interrupts.
blood dk has mass grip with aoe silence
but on a longer cd
you could argue DH has sigil aoe silence too
DH has AoE silence AND grip. Not just grip.
PWarrior also has an AoE silence that also taunts. But no grip.
Thats the thing.
And none of them even come close to what PPala has. Which also interrupts casts. Which is the OP thing of PPala.
That is why the moment PPala dosent get 1-shot on bosses it will be instantly OP.
Don’t make me go and get the receipts brother not sure you want that shown in public
Your funeral 
Go ahead! 
All you going to be able to show:
- If your overall performs better with Haste, then go for it.
- Crit build increases your out-of-combustion damage FAR more than haste build
Both of these statements are factually true. If you get hurt by these words, I recommend you reduce the amount of time spent on these forums.
Sorry to be blunt, but balancing classes based solely on the weakest players is absurd. You’re nerfing Arms Warrior by 15% on Execute because it’s too strong against low-skilled players, even though its win rate drops below 50% above 2100 rating.
At the same time, the issue with Death Knights isn’t their DPS or burst — it’s their fragility — and yet you’re increasing their damage output instead.
Frost Mage is currently the only spec with a 53% win rate, the only S-tier class this patch, and you’re leaving it untouched simply because weaker players don’t know how to play it properly.
As usual, PvP balancing is a joke, and your heavy-handed buffs and nerfs are laughable.
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Sorry to ask. Warrior players haven’t they bought the game ? Don’t they pay subscriptions?
You are a buffing an ability that is replaced , while both don’t share the modifiers. Fury has a huge problem in AoE after constant nerfs and generally both DPS specs have a low target capped AoE.
Every single time patch is announced at the PvP section it contains Warrior there is always a nerf . Warrior players pay to have fun in game. If other customers are not having fun playing against warriors, they are not obligated to play against them.
Edit: You buff rend , an ability that deal roughly 5% of our dmg even with 100% uptime. Why don’t you buff Mortal Strike which is our core damaging ability. It doesn’t anymore deal 60%HP damage.
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As a fury warrior I just feel Blizzard don’t care of our state on M+ and I feel so sadge.
Maybe the only answer is to take a break since Blizzard change something.
We are dead as Varian
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The funny thing is, prot palys have an ae avangers shield on 1 min. cd(45 seconds if skilled) and you dont even talk about that(i guess you didnt know?).
Im just putting it out there now.
If they touch avenger shield, prot paladin will die.