Class Tuning Incoming - 26 March

Community General Discussion
62

Im sorry but is there a PvP talent that you havent ruined for feral ?
Leader of the Pack- Ruined.
King Of The Jungle - Removed.
Thorns - Ruined.
Freedom Of The Herd- Useless.
Ferocious Wound- Nerfed to nothingness.
Savage Momentum- Kinda meh, having in mind that our defensives do not include any immunities and are 3mins long and you gonna need to run a talent as unreliable as this one.
High Winds- Absolutely ruined.

So theres barely any choice - you’re just forced to run whats left, and whats left is:
Strength Of The Wild- Which was nerfed, and even though healing was nerfed both from Frenzied Regen and Swiftmend- removed, Strength Of The Wild remained nerfed.
Wicked Claws - Which in all honesty should be baseline. We are the only class that has such a low % of slow, and now the healing reduction is nerfed too. Like Lmfao ? On top of that you need to use 2 global cooldowns to apply its full effect. Something other classes receive either passively or/and in 1 single global cooldown immidietely.
And last but not least
Tireless Pursuit:
Im sorry but Feral is not that mobile in comparison to other melees for you to nerf it even by a little, you smarties also keep adding slows that CANNOT be dispelled by shapeshifting, and its something you should fix before you are to nerf ferals mobility.
Tireless Pursuit feels mandatory for how kytie all classes are, along with Fluid Form being buggie and the milions of ROOTS per second that you get PASSIVELY from mages.

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63

It is literally about zap. Not about normal buttons. it is literally doing 40% of my damage. And it is a cooldown i can not press all the time. I even need to time it at moments i need to heal since it is a healing cooldown. Without optimizing it for dps it is on 40%.

It is not. it is about zap. Not about normal abilities.

64

And yet 40% of your healing is Ancient Teachings.

CJL is nothing more than the old Storm Keeper from Shaman. A nuke on CD. Except that in your case, 30% of that nuke heals people. In my case it did not. And it got removed.

The most similar thing I had to CJL was Ancestral Guidance. A long CD where X% of healing went to DD, and X% of damage went to healing. Removed.

So for example, with AG removed, when we had packs like the 1st pack of Priory in S1 I used to cast AG and DPS. BL + CDs and everything allowed me to pump enough DPS to heal up people and contribute as much as the tank in DD. Pack dies faster. Better for everyone. Only MW and DPriest can do that now.

Look. It does not matter from WHERE you get your HPS/DPS.

It can be from 1 nuke on CD. It can be from Smite like DPriest. It can come from AoE Spining Crane, or ST BoK.

Fact of the matter is that 30% of that GCD you used heals. I don’t have any of that. All I have is more risk for doing DPS.

If someone in the party gets hit and sits at 70%. You know that he might get 1-shot by the next ability.

So I have 2 choices. Risk it, and 1 small thing that goes wrong and he is dead. Or not. Heal him. If I risk it, I do DD. If I dont risk it, I do 0 DD. MW on the other hand, dont have to make this choice. They get both.

What does this mean? It means that for me to DPS, I have to play as if I was playing a couple of keys higher. Trusting that all kicks will go perfect, ect… While MW dont have to.

So as you can see, and I will repeat once again, my beef is not the raw DPS of classes.

By beef is that I need to take extra risks to do that DPS. Making “normal” encounters into “risky encounters” just because I play RShaman. And that is unfair IMO.

65

Yes. The zap is also healing with ancient teachings.

No, it is a healing cooldown doing tons of damage.

And i am all for ancestral guidance being back to resto shaman. It is stupid it was removed.

Everything about your healing rain and positioning and needing the GCD for it to place.
We need to place our jadefire stomp and also be on it to heal. Otherwise almost no healing by kicking.

Not to forget… we need to be in ducking melee with all those swirlies all the time around. We risk it to die ourselves, or let the player die.

We are risking it all. Not healing and not dpssing.
Get a mechanic? No healing from the monk. You can press here or there Spirit walker grace. We do not even have an instant healing button like riptide.

Class diversity.

66

My point exactly. Read what you said it out-loud and then compare what happens when you cast Ascendance.

YOU need to be on JFS. And you can reset its CD and cast them back to back. Instant cast. Unlike HR.

But either way. So what? That has nothing to do with DPS/HPS combo we are talking about. Its irrelevant if 30% of the damage of a melee spell or 30% of the damage of a ranged spell heals.

What matters is that MW and DPriest are specs with a permanent AG.

When it comes to heavy movement, MW is king. Everything is instant cast, or cast on the move. Almost everything.

I want you to try that with a RShaman.

Dont be absurd. You can also do things. And SWG is a CD.

Every class in the game performs better when stationary. Melee, Ranged, healer or tank. Everyone.

You say you play Totemic. Riptide is not even top 7 in HPS when you play Totemic.

67

Like i said. You can only complain about Zap. Not about normal buttons.

It is a proc. You can actually move your healing rain position when you want.

68

I complain about the 40% of healing from Ancient Teachings and Atonement.

WHERE it comes from is irrelevant. In WW its Zap. But in DF it was SKC…

Not whenever you want. 1 GCD. Dont forget.

69

it is very relevant, because without Zap i am doing 200k dps. Less than resto shaman with acid rain that is worth 20 GCD’s of a monk damage.

70

DF S3 MW were also doing a lot of damage. And it came from other sources.

They nerfed those sources and buffed Zap. Its in the patch notes.

WHO CARES.

Ancient Teachings… Permanent AG… That is my issue.

71

You seem to care a lot.
What i care about is class diversity.
I do not want every spec doing exactly the same per GCD.

72

Then you would not have an issue with my suggestions. As I already proved you can have class diversity while maintaining certain core mechanics.

Me neither. But its not hard to acheive. There are only 6 healers on roster.

And there are more than 6 ways to “spice up” the DD part of 4 of those healers, with out having to copy-paste MW and DPriest.

73

I’m not going to get dragged into this discussion because its idiotic even by the standards of these forums.

But to the point I quoted. Just no.

If monks didn’t have ancient teachings they wouldn’t have the toolkit to heal. Shamans have tools to heal after losing AG.

74

Ain’t no way brother… We are 10% behind the 5th place tank in raid, over 30% behind the top tank, bottom of the barrell in damage in m+ together with bear, by far the most paper tank placing the most burden on the healer, new tier set is still a downgrade in aoe even with the buff despite having more 20ilvls on it. And this is what we get?

Like Dorki said. Playing brewmaster is much like playing blood Dk except it is the healer that presses death strike for you.

75

I never said to remove Ancient Teachings from MW monks. Or to give Ancient Teachings to Shamans.

And we are talking about DPS. Not about HPS. So “healing toolkits” is not the discussion.

Because YES, RShamans have the toolkit to heal. But we lack the toolkit to EFFECTIVELY DD. We can DD, but not as risk-free as MW and DPriest can.

Its all discussed above. I wont repeat myself. But if you want a TLDR:

HPS wise, MW and RShamans are equal more or less. DPS wise, on paper we also can potentially do the same DPS. But in practice we dont.

What do you do? Buff RShaman DPS spells? You could. But its irrelevant if I cant spend those GCDs casting DD spells. Because I am healing…

So we need another solution to balance that out. Guess how…

76

I think that logic is a bit odd. Melee classes are extremely mobile these days. Rogues can teleport or sprint to a target. Paladins have extended range for their melee attacks and can summon their charger as a gap closer. That’s in addition to paladins also having stealth detection, numerous self heals, plenty of counters to crowd control and full on invincibility via their infamous bubble.

77

I’m mean, you guys are pretty simple vanilla tanks. Basically an ugly brown version of paladin with less complexity and buttons who then complain about not getting invites because of lack of utility.

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78

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79

I hope these changes make holy priest viable

80

All classes and specs are “viable” in that they are capable of doing 12’s for sure. Will they be top or more desirable? Probably not, but thats not what viable means.

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81

BUFF. OTHER. HEALERS. Please just for once stop with nerfing what is decent about one single healer class and try to bring others to THAT level. By now we clearly know you don’t want Healer DPS to be a thing again in keys like in shadowlands but what MW monk has is nowhere close… Nobody enjoys playing witha foam stick in their hands. BUFF OTHER HEALERS DPS . Just because the role is ‘healer’ the class does not have to be a useless squirrel in every solo content and be deprived of some little fun in M+.

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