[Concluded] Advisory Council of the Alliance

IC
A second draft is delivered into the same hands, following the productive criticism of Squire Valestrion Drayke of the Disciples of Light.

To whom it may concern.

Following the constructive input of Squire Valestrion Drayke of the Disciples of Light, I withdraw my previous proposal. I, as Mr. Drayke, am now convinced that the Alliance is best served with a set of separate ‘conclaves’ for each field of interest.

On that note, I shall at once get to work on the creation of a ‘Conclave of Magic’, hoping that such a council will ease the coordination and efficiency of the Alliance’s handling of magical affairs. I of course sincerely suggest for initiatives of the same nature to be considered, among other relevant fields.

Attached is Squire Drayke’s reply to my original proposal in full, and with that I of course acknowledge his work while remaining thankful for the enlightenment he bestowed me in its extension.

Yours sincerely,

Leonir Whiteholdt
of the Wizard’s Sanctum

Summary: Squire Drayke's thoughts on how to best structure Alliance efforts

OOC
In extension of Drayke’s thoughts on the subject, I’m revoking my original proposal. Instead I strongly encourage the creation of a wider selection of councils and conclaves, covering each field of relevance. This will of course be very much dependant on player initiatives within the confines of each ‘concept’, be it faith, druidism, magic or trade.

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Wonderful initiative! I believe this can bring some really interesting and structured RP to our server.

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I love this idea, and I’ll absolutly try to be a part of it!

(And now posted on the correct character!)

Legio XIII is standing by. Ready to fight for the Kingdom.

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Ah- pinkskins betrayin’ pinkskins. Good to know you’re not gettin’ anywhere.

I will have you know that a few of the only things that were “actually” agreed on during the War Council was for drafts to be created to be discussed at a next meeting. Wouldn’t call it betrayal, just in case someone else would shares your divisive angle. :stuck_out_tongue:

Hear hear!

We lend our Sentinel’s Glaive’s!

3 Likes

P-pinkskins? I do…don’t k-know much about the Alliance, b-b-but the Corpse Wagons h-hauling skin into t-the Apothecary f-for Abomination Maintenance c-c-carry all so…orts of colors, a-and we do…on’t d-discriminate in t-the Undercity. A-all d-dead f-f-flesh is equally suitable to g-g-graft on an Abomination! W-why, I m-myself h-have a purple elbow, a-and it s-s-suits me just fine!

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But what are we going to be roleplaying? as in having ministries is fun but is it going to be only discussion and pretense without actually making quests/operations/campaigns to support those discussions?

The idea in a nutshell is for representatives of factions to step forward and make their cases, for other representatives to forward support or opposition to these cases, and then for the Council to vote on a decree deciding on whether or not to support the case in question.

SCENARIO:
Representive A steps forward once called by the Chairman, to plead his case in accordance with the required formal draft submitted to the Secretariat in advance of the meeting. He presents his case, after which the Councillors are allowed to pose questions for him to answer. With no questions remaining, the Chairwoman bids for any opposition to the case to step forward to voice their concerns. Representative B and C might thus be allowed to the floor to oppose A’s case, before at last the Council votes. A majority vote is required to land a decision, where the Minister of the relevant Ministry will possess a vote of double value. If at a draw, the Chairman can add a last vote to land a final decision. Once decided, the relevant Ministry will act on the case and deliver responsibilities and authority accordingly. It might end up with Representative A being put in charge of seeing to the increased troop placement on the border to Stranglethorn, while the Ministry of Defense urges for all other represented factions to pledge their support to the decided cause.

No, no, I fully understand that. But what happens AFTER that? Does the Rep take some of the “soldiers” and actualyl start patrolling the border? Are we actually going to do the thing that we are talking about or just pretend that we did it?

Obviously, the decisions will indeed need to be acted out in-character. In light of the scenario above that would equal to Representative A taking charge of a project that utilizes what “soldiers” other factions pledge to the cause. It would for an instance result in a campaign, or the simple creation of a taskforce that on a regular basis patrols and acts on hostilities in the border area. The Ministry of Defense will be charged to make certain the decision is acted on, though whoever are put in authority will be responsible for delegating tasks, forming a campaign and acting on the decision in general.

It could also result in something as “casual” as putting in place a commitee to plan and perform a Grand Mass at the Cathedral, in which case the members of this commitee would be responsible for having the Mass happen in-character according to the framework and guidelines decided by the Council.

Then I would recommend adding specific examples for the tasks/quests the ministries will be conducting. Like how does Ministry of Defense make sure that our factions troops are never underequipped and such. It is very important to keep in mind how the actual game mechanics support our initiatives and how we can play around those mechanics in general.

Right now this is a HUGE task to organize and then discuss, because it needs very many people on board and to be basically willing to supply the cause with actual in-game time and resources.

Ministry of Magic - what they are doing is entirely made up and must be rp-d when they are on an expedition investigating.

Ministry of State - to judge somone, we need criminal ic characters, then catch them somehow and for them to agree on a trial. (not to mention that this basically means that we are controlling most of the alliance, if we can capture and trial people).

Ministry of Faith - like the magic it is entirely rp-d on the spot and during expeditions/event they will have to organize. I think it would be wise to combine those two as they overlap in many things.

Ministry of External Affairs - half of the tasks includes talking to RP characters that basically aren’t part of the council or alliance for that matter (which are VERY few). How do you do trading also? Cleansing Felwood taint or silithus or plaguelands also overlaps with Faith and Magic.

Secretariat - I like this and is the most essential thing for the council.

However we need hundereds of willing RP-ers to make this work.

I think you severly underestimate people’s ability to pick up on initiative and be imaginative in many of the cases you present. Roleplaying initiaves, like expeditions, hunting dangerous magical artifacts, investigating rogue magi or warlocks, and holding a Grand Mass are not new and entirely within reach even with limited participants. All it needs is a joint effort, and people willing to DM on occasions.

#1 Magic and Faith can’t really merge because there’s a solid divide between the two, The Light and Elune for an instance standing in stark contrast and opposition to Arcane as it stands. They can of course as any of the ministries cooperate on a case by case basis.

#2 Listing relevant scenarios under each ministry could well serve a purpose, but we of course want to be open to almost every initiave. Listing a selection of scenarios often excludes several different angles. All in all, it will be up to each character to forward his case and for other representatives to oppose or support while the Council decides, provides a framework and elects characters to take charge of the operation. Once delegations have been made we’ll of course cooperate OOC and IC to see the “quest” performed in whatever way is considered most reasonable. Ideally, no “impossible” case will ever be decided on to begin with.

#3 It is important to note that this council will serve as little more than an administrative body. It will still hinge on individual and collective initiatives and dedication, and in essence enable everyone to participate in the creation and development of our roleplaying community moving forward. It will be a fundament and a structure, ordering and ratifying initiatives in-character in a proper manner. It will of course demand effort from those that are given responsibility, as you rightly put, but no player will ever shoulder any burden alone if not desired.

#4 Concerning your point regarding Justice, it is stated in the draft that thr criminals themselves must always AGREE on wanting to be trialed by the Council. They will never be forced to, that would be beyond our authority. And yes, IC-criminals would obviously be required, but mummer-characters can also be utilized for certain storylines. Regardless, justice will only ever play one part in the Ministry of State.

#5 Regarding External Affairs you’re once again a little restrictive on your view of what is within reach. We have several mercenary companies, several trading companies, and we have several neutral characters both on the Alliance side and the Horde side. If to establish trade with Booty Bay there’s also the possibility of having one or several mummers pick up the temporary role of traders for the sake of DM-ing. As for overlapping, yes, every ministry overlaps on some level. That is a strength more so than a weakness, giving room for cooperation and coordination as well as to transfer responsibilities should one Ministry be overloaded. That said, if any Ministry becomes unneeded as time passes we are only right to discuss eventual merges.

As a final note I’d like to make clear that yes, much if not everything will need to be made up. That is what roleplaying is about and why I think a Council like this is needed. It will help in making what is “made up” clear to all that participate, and thus actively implement it as a part of our server lore and later history. It will also help in not leaving too few with too much Dungeon Master-responsibility for too long, thus avoiding people overworking themselves, instead relying on the community as a whole.

*mummer is a temporary character played by a toon for the occasion of a storyline or several (for an instance if “Leonir” becomes and acts as “Trader James of Booty Bay” for the duration of a trade coalition meeting)

You misunderstood, Faith and Arcane is indeed different, but the tasks they will have to complete will mostly be overlapping. The segregation of the ministries comes so the tasks they will be completing won’t be overlapped with each other and have lorewise sense as well right?

Well now you have edited and said that overlapping is good, however I don’t agree, because the line/difference between the ministries will become vague/blurry and dissapear sooner or later, from my experience both in rp, larps and irl.

But in the end we aren’t an advisory council of the alliance but a ruling council as tasks of some ministries (State, External and Defense) is a MAJOR factor in ruling a kingdom/faction/alliance.

I’m not saying that I don’t want that (as lore is stale and needs rejuvenation, especially considering that we are on calssic for good and no further story development will get in our way), I’m just saying that we should embrace it actually.

I am sorry for the rapid edits, but I’m on my phone and very limited thus.

It is very important to underline the Council’s role in that it will only ever claim to care for lesser issues and topics brought to its attention by representatives of factions -within- the Alliance. This is important, because while what we do will and should color change in the world as our characters view it, we can never claim to act on the Alliance’s official behalf.

Examples of what we can’t touch:

  1. Declaring war
  2. Claim to have settled on a trade agreement with Gazlowe of the Goblins
  3. Force a criminal to stand trial and receive judgement
  4. Pass laws and policy on the Alliance’s behalf

Examples of what we can do:

  1. Return hostility where skirmishes occur, or send an anonymous taskforce behind enemy lines to investigate on the Council and its factions behalf
  2. Settle a trade ageeement with the mummer/trader “James og Booty Bay” and receive x50 Iron Bars each week in exchange of x30 Runecloth
  3. Have a criminal choose to stand judgement before the Council instead of the Royal Court by his own free will, and deliver punishment accordingly
  4. Pass policy regarding Council affairs, and the factions who are bound in its participation.

Stepping over this line is considered very much bad in terms of breaking through what we know to be the established framework of lore in the game. We can’t for an instance assume or force our will on characters and players who are not wanting anything to do with us.

I understand everything you are saying and we are on the same page, but there is one thing:

  • Have a criminal choose to stand judgement before the Council instead of the
    Royal Court by his own free will, and deliver punishment accordingly.

How is this handled IC? Did the criminal turn himself in or did we capture him? Either way Trial Council is doing something that is very similar to the examples you gave on what we can’t touch. And again I don’t mind to RP passing laws or trade agreements with Lore Characters (that make sense), if we all agree for it.

Acting as if interacting with lore characters is a clear line we shouldn’t ever pass in my opinion, for players should only ever influence other players and through their own self-made characters. We can’t ever claim to know what a lore character says, means, agrees to, opposes or anything really.

This is a line most roleplayers agree on and acknowledge, as you’re aware because of your guild’s predicament regarding the picking up of a lore character. I don’t make a fuss about it OOCly, but many others judge it out of line, and for a Council serving the community as a whole it will of course be important to maintain a fundament that all can agree with and respect.

As for the trial matter, it’d likely involve discussing it OOCly with the player in question, and then act it out as if he has been subdued either by “us” or the Guards and then voiced himself willing to stand trial before the Council instead of the Court because he or she deems that his best option (and of course to provide roleplay and player-driven stories). These situations are usually the culimination of long storylines though, where OOC-communication and coordination always secures a smooth development.

But that’s just it, you are saying that we shouldn’t interact with lore characters. But having such a high power in alliance, would never be done without interacting with important lore characters. Basically the whole alliance “agreed” that we will be the advisory council and gave us power to put criminals at trial. Doesn’t matter that it is the criminals choice, as without alliance agreeing upon it, he would have been put to court and not our trial.

It is very hypocritical to flat out say no to lore characters (especially ones without any true power) but RP as made up characters who have power that can only be granted by Powerful Lore Characters.

What you say is indeed true, and it will demand a joint suspension of disbelief for us to agree that a council of faction representatives are allowed by the Alliance. In our defense it concerns the Alliance as a whole, and the assumption that they would indeed vouch for the initiative, but excludes all personal claim of intimate interaction with any named lore character of worth and persona.

As said, it requires a joint acknowledgement, and even then we are of course bound to acknowledge any who might be opposed to the idea and choose to view the effort as illigimate.

At the end of the day it is a community initiative to bestow our roleplayers a chance to influence and color the world with change without acting out of bounds though meanwhile taking us the freedom to assume a consensus on the legitimacy of our existence. It boils down to the degree of which we operate beyond or within the lore framework mentioned already.