Content specific Class/Spec - Buffs/Nerfs (Passive Abilities)

TLDR: every spec in game should have a passive ability which is active only in specific content type (raid, m+, pvp) which adjusts class/spec stats accordingly to the needs of the content, which will make lesser usable specs more usable in those types of content. (this prevents balance changes in other aspects of the game)

EXPLANATION:
meta was always there and will be always there in a way (but not necessarily). and because wow is a very complex game and m+ wasn’t initially planned the game wasn’t designed around it. and so it comes what some specs/classes doesn’t really fit into that type of content (gameplay) or are less effective than others but having own strengths which are better in other type of content, this problem can’t be solved universally (making the class good in any type of content without making it just plain OP).
the game should have spec/content specific passive abilities which adjusts most basic stats of the character, like a overall buff (or nerf) to the class/spec.

right now “meta” is around utility/usefulness which is totally fine but then the class/spec with lower utility must have just more plain stats like +Overall Damage% / +Damage Reduction% so they are more buffed which increases they usefulness in dungeon (they deal more damage than the utility counterparts and require less healing)

for example right now VDH has great utility and the best damage of all tanks. the direct question is why? it’s literally OP. classes like VDH should have moderate damage or even lower because of their overall utility/usefulness and specs like brewmaster/prot warrior should pump damage and be more tanky. this all should be adjusting according to content type, right now i am talking about dungeons. this way you could in very short term balance most classes/specs and make them more viable in the specific content type without breaking them in others.

the 2 counterparts are
Utility <==> Damage/Tankiness

the “stupid” specs should just pump the most, and the specs with awesome utility should be in the direction of supports (i am not telling to nerf them hard but there should be an ideological adjustment, great example are retr paladins they are balanced, have great utility and decent damage, but not more)
applying it to reality you could choose some baseline what is “fine” (damage wise/survivability) and adjust specs stats according to their effectiveness in the current content type.

so for example you don’t nerf any good specs but just buff the one which are not, so their overall effectiveness is closer to the top specs (as mentioned it’s easily done by increasing specs +overall damage% and +damage reduction% / + healing% depending on the needs, in most cases you don’t need to introduce more complex stats/conditions but you could with the passive ability)

this is a very simple and clean way to make almost any spec viable. i really like how the reworked warlocks and hunters are fitting in m+ and this should be the case for any spec, some just need more damage/tankiness thats it.

it should feel like…
“i have a pala tank great! he can heal me, dispel me, save me in critical situation, and even resurrect, i feel really safe and comfy, but the damage isn’t that great but we will make it up”

“i have a warr tank, this will be a quick one. he just blasts like no other tank, because it’s the only real thing what he provides” and this difference between specs should be noticeable, and not like +10% dps, it should be in range of 25-50% depending on spec overall effectiveness, so you have a reason to make a comp around it. if you “overbuff” you can always reduce the values until it’s not OP but viable. right now it’s not the case with many specs.

#MAKE_EVERY_SPEC_GREAT_AGAIN !

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It’s new year, not April fools.

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current dh is a april fools. why don’t you complain? it has 20% more dps than other tanks. are you payed blizzard actor? who justifies everything what is in the game is the right decision.

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BDK seems to do a ton of damage atm too :slight_smile:

and thats fine. he could do even more.

So you want to make some classes useless because they bring a battle res or lust?
So (For example) because a shaman brings a bloodlust you want to make it do 25% less damage?

it’s you who wants that i never wrote such thing. i wrote “effectiveness” it’s measured at the end of the run overall dps overall healing and utility which made the run easier.
shamans needs a buff not a nerf. everyone whos not top of the meta needs buffs until they become the meta then you slightly nerf them back and they are in a good spot.

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It was an example… as i noted in the comment.

You want to have some classes deal 25-50% less damage due to the utility that they bring.
This would just result in them not being taken. The utility ultimately will not matter if the class doesnt do any damage.

you adjust the numbers until it’s not that clear cut. if you can’t tell for sure then it’s balanced. it was just an example i don’t care about exact numbers. but you need to feel the impact

The idea sounds great in theory but in reality it would fail hard. The specs that dont do the damage will just not get taken and it would push the meta even more. People will just stop playing because they would get fed up seeing themselves at the bottom of the damage meter.

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So you think 20% is too much so you suggest 25-50% more? Top brain.

Also, its ‘paid’. And no.

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whats your alt? which keys do you do? cause i am not sure if you have the expertise to talk about m+

this all won’t affect low skill andys who do their stuff. you can also easly do what this changes apply on onwards on keystone level 20 or w/e it’s all very simple. you just need to have the will to do. and no you can easily adjust numbers so they are fine there is 0 difference with default balance except it’s applied only in specific scenarios. it allows to balance more fine grain.

So you think 20% is too much so you suggest 25-50% more? Top brain.

dh is very mobile has tons of useful utility for m+ and with meta is very tanky he has everything and plenty of it. only thing dh miss is a cr (not sure about dispell), lol.

the biggest point in balancing for blizzard are the raid. my suggestion is to decouple class balancing from raids, and adjust them to the needs of m+. or w/e you can do the same for pvp they already have many pvp specific cringe restrictions mechanics even a seprate ilvl kekw. it’s like the same but better cleaner/simpler.

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Fortunately i dont have to worry about satisfying criteria of yours to post on the forum.
I can see you have done higher keys than i have so well played.
From your repeated reference to DH i have to assume that you are a bit miffed because they are currently the FOTM tanks.
Dont worry they will change again next season…

I could go over this idea all over again… but im tired.

The reason PI, Aug, and utility in general are a nightmare to balance is because everyone is a “support”. Either nobody is, or we all are. Simple as that.

And whatever you want to achieve, was already tried multiple times. The very first time it was tried was in 2004 with the launch of WoW itself.

And it was such a clownfeast of a system that to solve it Blizz had to (among other things) invent Space Goats from nowhere so that the Alliance could have BL. Literally.

So TLDR: NO. Not only it wont work, but it has been already tried 4 times in the past 20 years and failed every time. Trying it a 5th time will just lead to the same result.

What needs to be done is what I mentioned before: Either we ALL bring similar utility, or none of us do. Otherwise you will have Exodia comp every season.

Outside of being mobile; but about utility people have always said BDK is OP because of all the crowed controls it has :grin: And even a CR on top of it!

no. the point of post is what “meta” is an artificial construct which is supported by balance decisions. you can relative easily make the meta more blurry and enjoyable for majority classes/specs. (and this is what any balance should strive for)

dh is just a clear cut example another one is paladin tank. but if you nerf a bit his damage then he would be in the right place.

Dont worry they will change again next season…
i will still worry because game design/balance is bad. it doesn’t make things better if my class is overbuffed. it will just become the new dh. all classes/specs should be strong, universally in wow you can’t achieve this, thats why you need content specific adjustments.

DH tank and Pala tank are meta right now because in dungeons there are a TON of casters and they are the only 2 clases that have AoE silences on a short CD.

GDruid was meta in S2 because its the one that mitigates physical damage the most. And there was a TON of it.

So… how do you balance that? Well… you either remove so many casters (which means the meta will be GDruid again). OR… well… you give AoE silence to EVERY tank, or NONE of them… Which is far more reasonable to achieve the goals you want.

yes thats why we don’t have tanks and heal everyone is a dd cause otherwise it’s impossible to balance. you are can make balance is such way what many comps are possible and for this you need conditional/specific buffs. raids are different from m+ thats why one balance won’t fit all. talents partially solve this but you need stronger changes like spec passives and which are independent from talent selection (cause it will also again narrow the usable talents)

So… how do you balance that? Well… you either remove so many casters (which means the meta will be GDruid again). OR… well… you give AoE silence to EVERY tank, or NONE of them… Which is far more reasonable to achieve the goals you want.

thats also a way but not necessarily, as i said those tanks can have such tools but their damage should be considerably worse (or damage of other tanks better) and it would be a tradeoff. not in many places is silence SUCH a game changer in some it is and it’s fine

overall point is game needs content specific balance adjustments (like pvp has) and not one universal. and you can buff/adjust in many ways i am not insisting on something one.
and again it can be adjusted weekly (or once per several weeks) depending how meta is developing and it won’t affect raid and other activities.

Im sure that they have nothing better to do than just spend all the time analysing data and nerfing/buffing classes on a weekly basis.

WHAT?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO EXACTLY THAT and improve. you are literally telling they shouldn’t do their jobs. unreal. or is blizzard a small indie company with 3 workers? like hundreds thousand people pay 15$ monthly so they do some balance changes once a half a year? it’s not a rocket science who believes that has no clue about game dev. you put like 2-3 in charge of balance for all classes and they easily can do that. including reading threads like this for some new ideas. (or reddit w/e) many players have great suggestions you just need to interpret them and address the issues. i am not telling how exactly they need to solve it but the direction which could work.

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