Well at this point sadly we can all agree the loot system isnt about making a good system, its about creating a system that will force us to play longer. Like titanforging was.
If they add rng sockets on top of this I really give up on Blizzard.
Indeed. TFing is essential a random interval reward system. It’s barely equivalent to what most people recognise as a reward system, because there’s no connection between rewards and what you’re doing.
The main benefits of this reward method? Casinos. Why? Because its been proven to keep people doing X action for longer than other reward methods.
At the end of the day we can talk about “thrills” of random gear procs, etc. But when we see this is the ONLY way to get the best rewards in the game, with no alternative, it’s somewhat clear its not about a gear philosophy, it’s about trying to get people to repeat behaviours for as long as possible.
Same with loot crates etc.
I don’t mind some RNG, but give us alternatives alongside it, stuff we can do to work at it slowly. On its own its just throwing yourself at a wall in hope.
Corruption is still RNG, but at least I have to “do something” to get the benefit, ie play with the affixes. This gives some agency to me in taking the reward. TF doesn’t do that. It doesn’t reward my agency at all.
In an ideal world we’d have something different to both (less RNG reliance) but as it stands, I think I will prefer corruption to TFing, even if I think in the whole corruption is not the best system or way to do things.
No, but I’ll do my best to make sure Blizzard knows how I feel because this system ruins an important part of the game for me. I don’t want to see it in its current state hitting live servers.
And it’s popular amongst many players as well.
To quote you: “Neither one of us is right”. 
That’s my point. It comes down to popularity. And I would wager the system has more critics than fans, hence the decision to “rework” TFing and why its come up on blizzards list.
It doesn’t mean my opinion is right, it just means it is (more widely) shared. Just as yours is by other players. But I highly doubt they’d fiddle with TFing if a vast majority of players communicated how positive it was.
I hope in the future 9.0 there’s a system we can agree on and both enjoy.
Here’s where we disagree too then. I think it’s only the majority of the forum posters and streamers that don’t like TF and who are being very vocal about it. There’s a vast, vast group of players who never visit these things or watch videos etc. And I think most of those are fine with TF. But of course; we both just don’t know.
The fact is that Blizzard is indeed acting on that critique and I don’t like it.
It’s going to make the game worse for me.
I think you know as well as I do that people are far less likely to post something positive about a system than a negative. It’s in our nature to complain when things are not to our liking and just keep quiet an enjoy what we have when it IS to our liking.
I do too.
I’m not at all opposed to a new system, but not one that promotes downsides (or as I like to call it: torture) to wearing gear. Not to mention the ugly, ugly, ugly forced graphical effect that’s forced on players wearing that gear too! Just: no!!!
I can assure you that almost every player that enjoys the high end gameplay dont enjoy it. For you the system is something funny. You get an titanforge and giggle and I can understand how thats funny for you. For us its an extreme annoyance. Its not just streamers that hate it. So if this new corruption system dial down at least a little on the rng I will be happy. However I got a gut feeling they will add rng sockets aswell.
Not only that we also got the damn titan residuum lottery and the benthic lottery that adds to the frustration with all the loot.
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And you think those kinds of players are the majority? 
Extreme is a bit hyperbole.
I get that it has some things that don’t sit well with mythic raiders, but a lot of it is exxagerated or even just plainly not true (or it’s true, but just… you know… supported by a very elitist view of the game, which is something I will never agree with).
Of course not, I never implied that was the case.
I won’t. 
Same here. Just because the corruption system sucks doesn’t make titanforging automatically a good system. It’s just equally garbage.
Probably not. But whats at tops a funny little thing for you is close to a gamebreaker for us atleast combined with all the other rng systems. Thats my point. And im sure alot of people would like to mythic raid, that simply dont have the energy for all these stupid loot systems.
Well tbh its the sockets that annoy me the most but we might aswell include that into the whole titanforge system cus its a part of it.
But feel free to educate me on why im exxagerating.
Although I will try corruption gear ofc I have to say the forced corruption effect is a bit of a mixed review from me. Cool idea, but not sure I’m looking forwards to seeing raids/groups full of people with the same dingy tint to them.
That’s underplaying it mate.
Getting upgrades is fun and it’s a very big pillar of the RPG genre, so yeah; it adds immensely to the game’s longevity for players like me because we can keep getting upgrades without having to run content that we don’t enjoy doing.
That’s not ‘a funny little thing’. That’s pretty major. Now, I will admit that BfA has more ways that it accomplished this, but I’m hearing complaints about that TOO. It seems there’s some players out there who just love to put other players in boxes and make sure they never, ever, ever get to go out and play with the other kids’ toys.
Oh my friend… The loot system is far from a factor why most people don’t do mythic raids (the ones that don’t run them anyway - I’m sure there’s some mythic raiders out there who’ve stopped running those raids due to some personal frustrations, but to solely blame TF for that is just silly).
I get that. And I’ve been a supporter of removing sockets from the TF proc for a long time. Just like limiting the maximum ilvl proc (I just disagree with some others in what that max should be; imo it should be 20).
Well, I of course can’t look in your head, YOU might feel it’s an ‘extreme annoyance’, but… if you look at it objectively; it really shouldn’t be. An annoyance; sure. Don’t like it; sure. But honestly; I’ve been bombarded with hyperbole for years now about TF. People claim it ruins any- and everything, even when it’s not related at all OR (as is the case in BfA) other systems are more to blame for certain things than TF.
Anyway, shall we get back to ‘corruption’ being a bad system here?
You know, the whole point of TFing and it’s introduction is to solve a “developer problem” as it is often referred to. As are many systems implemented in the current iteration of the game. They wanted players to repeat the content more often and in the process MAYBE get an upgrade.
This is the part where they are wrong. The vast majority of people don’t even care about their gear, they just want the transmog. (hence the reason many people even now farm old raids). If they offered that as an incentive, I am sure people would repeat the content more than ever.
A non-mythic raider does care about his character power level to some extent, but he/she is a non-mythic raider perfectly content to clear the instance on that level without the need to have some super high item level because he/she doesnt need it. They aren’t pushing content. They do need incentive to keep clearing the instance and this is the part where cosmetic gear comes in.
I really can’t think of any point in the past where players complained that item level is fixed or that dungeons gave you blue gear or that secondary stats were too much so they had to prune them too. They just changed this out of the blue with some explanation of excitement or whatever and now we have this mess where they dig themselves a deeper hole every time, case in point Corrupted gear now.
But many did complain about TFing an with good reason. And most of the posts, comments or threads I’ve seen here, MMOChamp or Wowhead don’t even like the sound of corrupted gear.
It’s just another layer of RNG on top of what we have and I don’t think thats good or exciting. You don’t get excited when an item titanforges with a socket, you get relieved. You do get disappointed when it doesn’t though.
Then there is the balancing issue.
Just look at the bonuses it gives you, you really think they will be balanced? Of course they won’t be, just how Azerite isn’t. They are just making it harder for themselves to climb out of the said hole later.
In my opinion, if a gearing system takes you a whole blogpost to explain how it works, then its not a good system. Gearing needs to be simple. You SHOULD be able to tell if an item is an upgrade or not just by looking at it (most of the time).
Us mythic raiders have it even worse (I know we are minority). We really have to sim every single piece we get in order to min/max because the end bosses are so tightly tuned that every point of DPS matters.
Only thing we don’t sim is if we get the same piece of gear but higher item level or socketed.
And for this, most people have to pay a third party in order to do so smoothly. We should not have to pay additional fees on top of subscription just because we play the game on the highest difficulty.
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When you drop the best in slot with the current iteration of corruption system as its stays now. You will probably be not able to use it for a weeks, becouse of amount of corruption on you will be simply to huge to be able to play with it . the amount of corruption pieces on your character will be somehow limited forever(thats ok). however the only purpose of this is to limit the loot power of super high-end- guilds, these ppl mostly spends literaly half of the every day in the game at the top of it, they mostly have to use multi-box anyway to be able to cover all of their daily activities, they also are sponsored with the real money to get a gold. I do like when the game is balanced around all players, however do we need the game design balanced around players who literaly lives inside the game? This is not even 1% of the playerbase, this is more likely 0,001 % of it. I Dont know why Blizzard wants to apply the system like this, is it becouse of streaming platforms… just why. WoW has worse issues to solve.
As you stated later in your post; you are a mythic raider. So the above is you speculating about ‘what a non-mythic raider’ cares or doesn’t care about. And the problem with that speculation is; it’s done from YOUR perspective.
In essence; you’re wrong. I don’t feel that way for instance. Sure, there’s probably some people like what you described, but you can’t generalize and think everybody feels that way; because that’s simply not the case.
I agree with one thing though; yes, we do need incentive.
And giving us gear with negative effects is NOT incentive. It’s a repellent, in fact.
I didn’t complain, true. I just quit. Back in WotLK.
Because of exactly this reason (well, one of the reasons anyway).
I was sick and tired of being treated like a second rate citizen just because I don’t enjoy raiding. The lack of fun, worthwhile solo-able content was also a problem back then and that, for a large part, has been fixed (the fun part is a problem in BfA for sure), but the ‘loot’ problem was still there for a long time.
The guy who is raiding mythic- is just the guy who wants to get his difficulty challenge (mostly)
The guy who is raiding mythic- isn´t, the nerd
who lives without a job, from the money of his mom while only girl who he ever saw, is that one which is raiding … …, on the pornhub.
Blizzard should be able to recognize it, but they are not.
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Correct. They are making it mandatory for us to log in every day, do our chores and log out. And we are punished if we don’t.
For example myself, I went on vacation the same time BFA launched. Now, when I got back, I had to level to 120 which is fair enough, but then I had to meet the requirements set by my guild in order for us to go into mythic the very first week of its opening. I had a work-related emergency in the meantime and there I was, unable to catch up to my guildies because I could not play 10 hours a day.
Fast forward to this summer. Eternal Palace opening week. I got engaged and had a wedding planned for 20th July. Needless to say, planning a wedding takes time and you are unable to play as much as you would like to. Either way, I found the time to catch up with my gear and AP. The thing is, I had no Benthic items (well, not good ones because we all know what it takes to get those).
I quit the game at that same moment and did not come back until a month ago. It’s not fun, its doing chores of which many people have plenty of in their lives.
There is a reason that so many of the mythic guilds just quit raiding in BFA. The barriers for raiding become more ridiculous from tier to tier.
This new corrupted system does the same thing. It’s just another barrier to entry, another mandatory content you have to do in order to raid at the highest level. The worst thing is you can’t infulence your bad luck in any way. You just pray you get a good piece, exactly like Benthic pieces.
I am fine with AP grind, it’s an MMO, there has to be a grind. I am fine with grinding gear via dungeons or raiding. I am not fine playing a slot machine at a vendor, hoping that I get the right bonus with the right corruption number and the right stats. I mean do people really think this is a good gameplay feature?
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But this is not a gear issue. It’s a game design issue. If you had mage tower, chromie scenario, mop scenarios, and similar solo things back then, would it have mattered for you that you did not have the best gear? I don’t think it would have. From your post, I gather that that was your greatest issue with the game at the time.
Also, before I was mythic raider, I was heroic raider, I was a normal raider as well. Do you think I simmed my character back then every single time I got a piece of gear? Of course I didn’t. I was perfectly content to just clear the raid instance every week or so without worrying about my output as DPS. These things don’t matter as much in lower difficulties so long as you get it done.
‘the best’ no, but GOOD gear yeah that would’ve mattered a lot. Because of the type of content you just mentioned, where gear matters.
Agreed, but to say that it doesn’t matter at all is just not true.
It’s fun to get more powerful. That’s an important part of the type of game that WoW is. If that part stops then a lot of the fun goes away and that might lead to people getting bored and quitting - which of course Blizzard don’t want to happen.
Again, this is, in my opinion, a design flaw. I agree with you that these things should not have a gear check but a mechanics/skill checks. Now that I think about it, if they decide to design such pieces of content, I hope they use the “normalized stats” PvP thing. That way everyone will be equal there.
Alright maybe I overdid it a little there.
Its fun to get more powerful, it is the whole point of an RPG like you said.
I just think that cosmetic rewards are as much, if not more of an incentive to run dungeons/raids repeatedly for longer periods of time.
Agreed partially.
If it’s the INTENT of the content to test a player’s skill, then yes I agree with you.
However… then I would not like that content. If there had been no way to make mage tower a little easier by getting better gear, I wouldn’t have done it.
Again there’s that ‘getting more powerful’ part. That is what I like.
I don’t enjoy difficult content because of the challenge. That’s not appealing to me.
Agreed. Cosmetic rewards are awesome.
Take the mage tower again for instance. If that just offered a piece of gear I probably wouldn’t have bothered. But it offered a unique weapon appearance. That was cool.