THis is strange argument. It is like “you have 2 at least viable core game mechanics in game, you don’t need to use third”.
Why this third one even exist then?
IT exist for a reason and this reason — people like its gamedesign. And I don’t like game design of all other two. I don’t like gamedesign of fire mage so I’m not playing it even if its most powerful spec in game (if it was).
The specs in game are for us to play with. and saying “well you don’t use it if it sucks” isn’t help to solve the problems with them.
RIght now I’m in a raid on Heroic Ny’alotha and one dude nitpick my spec to make strawman argument for raid failing at boss. And I understand why he choose to do that (even though I’m not on last by DPS, cause again Echoing void makes 35% of all damage I’m doing in raids and mythics) but it is always sucks to be this target for nitpicking and bullying only cause people know that I’m not capable of doing basics with this spec no matter how good I would play, cause other specs just better at it.
I’m not saying don’t choose it but rather IF you choose to play that specc, at least be aware that you are choosing it over 2 more viable options. You looked at your class and said to yourself “Even though i have Assassination and Outlaw, 2 vastly superior Speccs for Raiding and M+, I’m gonna choose to play the one that’s best suited for PvP situations.”
You’re like a Ret Paladin complaining about his low hps in group healing situations. It’s simply not what the specc is designed to do even though it technically can.
And if you wanna raid that way, it’s fine. You’ll find enough groups that will take you in as a sub rogue. If your Raidlead is pinning wipes on you because you are doing a little less dmg than you would with a different specc, then it’s time for a new raidlead.
No Raid in the history of ever has been stuck on a boss because 1 dps is playing a specc that does 10% less dmg than an alternative specc.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/w4zkNHLMamP18TRt#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=15
It’s about 15% of your damage, which is about average.
Completely agree with that. But Sub isn’t even best at what it designed for (single target DPS). It’s easily outDPSed by most of DPS classes. And since most of encounters are AOE based noone want sub in their group just to be able to get 5% increased damage output in BEST situations when they can get any other DPS with proper generic aoe and slide through mobs to get to the boss faster.
Some time ago Sub was definitely single target spec DPS, now it’s not even good in that.
THey one thing it good at is being alive and safe where other specs/classes would die
Okay. But still you can see that one THING that is completely random in getting it is doing more than my most used ability. It supposed to be complimentary not a full must have rotation damage ability, right now I won’t even change ring with this corruption effect if it’s even be +20-25 ilvl, cause I’m depending on it too much, and my DPS will be MUCH lower when they nerf void by 50%
the thing that bugs me is that Blizz can obviously buff or nerf things in different content (healer pvp nerfs, corruption pvp nerfs, healer raid buffs) why cant they apply a damage buff to tanks healers in open world/purely solo content to make it a more even playing field?
Welcome to my world honey xD I’m a mage. When was the last time so saw an arcane mage running about? I think I’ve seen two of them in the last 5 months and I’m not entirely convinced that it wasn’t the same guy. And Arcane is our default single target specc. Yet it’s completely overtaken by first frost and now fire. Thats just hot it goes sometimes. But i can’t expect Blizzard to not fix a problem simply because it benefits me personally. And Echoing Void IS a problem. it’s destroying dungeon balance and allowing wonky nonsense such a Noggie going full ham on corruption and being a Blood dk dps with 130k+ dps
Yeah. My main before legion was Arcane mage. Every raid mages were Fire or Ice (I didn’t even imagined Ice would be decent and most powerful in PvE it always lacking damage on every aspect) but even so I was able to deal decent damage as an Arcane. At the same time I wasn’t really needed in anywhere cause I wasn’t cold/hot enough.
Now it’s the same with sub. in legion I was able to compete with other specs cause I was dealing a LOT more damage to one target and every boss fight I was at the top of the meter. But now I’m near the top ONLY cause I have echoing void wich sucks, cause other classes who doesn’t have echoing void deal more damage than me with their core abilities.
What are you talking about? ev doesnt do full damage to all targets, it’s damage split among nearby enemies. The more mobs around, the lesser impact of ev on overall damage, if some mobs have damage reduction (like those eyes in vision), a lot of ev damage will be wasted. Big aoe dps is twilight devastation, ev helps with single target mostly.
I suppose that’s why Tanks wearing it are seen as additional dps and are often enough out-dpsing full on dd’s in m+. Because it sucks at AoE. That must also be why during Carapace Myth progress many of the best melee players worldwide stacked it, to a point where now famously Noggie from Method stacked it up to 138 Corruption, specced Blood and used it to burn down the adds, ending up at 130k dps before he had to change out of it for tanking too much damage.
he then went down to 98 corruption and still ended up at rank 4 on the meters as a blood dk, surrounded by some of the best dps players in the world.
But i suppose you’re right, it’s pretty worthless in AoE situations. 
I wish that specs would have more of that face - aoe, cleave, single target. I play frost dk, I do not win in any of those charts though. But since I am master in all (kind of) - then in long run I end up in middle of the pack. But still thanks to visions I am looking ways to go Unholy… But need that 3+2 particular azerite traits and finally that essences from gnome land.
And 0 of my characters have that aoe corruption that every man and their dog uses. RNG in gearing sucks even more than RNG anywhere else in game. And here I was thinking we were supposed to get better system than TF/WF.
I actually really like the way the mage is designed on a conceptual level. It’s something you can only successfully pull off with pure dps classes and i wish there was more of it and to a stronger degree.
With Mage you have:
Arcane:
Pure, dedicated, no frills, single minded one target dps. No fu**s given, just target something and blow it up. Of course you have AoE with arcane as well, but in the long run it can’t compete with the other two speccs. But to compensate he has some nice utility build in with slow and faster movement.
Fire:
Very solid single target dmg bursts with the potential to specc into AoE and completely obliterate groups of enemies. Not much in terms of control aside from the mage basic toolkit of sheep, short root and an immunity on a long cd.
Frost:
Control. Good Single target and AoE dmg but the focus is on keeping the enemies slowed down and kill them that way. frost mages don’t get melee’d by mobs unless they screw up. Add to that double ice block, double frost nova and ice shield, Frost clearly has the superior survivability from all mage speccs.
And designs like that are what i would love to see with more pure dps classes because it can’t be done with hybrids. Take a paladin for example. Healing specc, Tank specc, dps specc.
With only one specc dedicated to dps, it has to be viable in all situations. That means single- as well as multitarget damage, add control to a degree, survivability and utility all rolled into one specc. But that sould in turn also mean that at no point they should outshine other classes that are more specialized, given both equal gear and skill.
And gearing the game and classes towards things like that are what i would very much prefer to see over a corruption system that has obviously seen much to short of a test period and is now hastily being clobbered into submission to make it work. Luckily Blizz decided to hold off until after the World First Race, as to not completely f**k the guys over, and yet i can’t help but wonder what we could get if all that effort would be put into the Classes for once and not some fluff gear…
you do know that’s an extreme outlier and not the norm right? It’s the same as unholy dks being able to push 1m dps in m+ on really big pulls. That’s not the norm, it’s an extreme outlier.
what exactly do you see as the outlier?
1 DK running with 138 corruption, that’s an extreme outlier and so far away from the norm.
Absolutely true. Nontheless, it happened. And it happened extremely publically. Plus lke i said, he went down to 98 after that because he couldn’t handle the 100+ effect. The thing is though, after that Noggie didn’t have much of an issue. He’s even run +15 dungeons in that setup. On Stream. Prooving to everyone that it is absolutely possible to pull it off
it requires skill and the right gear, but it absolutely doable. And i think that is much of Blizzards issue right now. Not what people are doing but they have prooven(or is it proven? 2nd language) can be done.
the second you go above 80 corruption as a tank you are putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the healer because you take extra damage and heals are less effective. If anything this should be more of a testament to the actual skill of the players rather than being viewed as so OP it needs a nerf.
This is something that right now 99.999999% of the playerbase could only hope to achieve.
Right now it’s tremendously difficult. In 3 weeks? in 5 weeks? things will be a lot different because of the back level. Blizz isn’t balancing the game for right now but for the next 10 or more months. this is gonna be a long patch.
The joke is that he’s even wearing cloth armor (as a DK), only for the effect.
How are guilds going to deal with bosses such as Hivemind mythic with the nerf to corruption. Is this taken into account?