Blizzard could write any plotline well. Faction war or w/o faction war. This is a fact.
However, Blizzard does not write either very well at the moment and hasn’t since BFA’s 1st patch. This is also a fact.
You can move the post as you like but everyone can surely agree here that Blizzard’s writing isn’t exactly great as of late.
Yet you, or anybody else flexing this argument, comes somehow to the conclusion that where Blizzard fails to write enticing conflict and villains into the story with -two- factions, splintering the factions into -multiple- enemies would somehow be better.
To reiterate: Blizzard is incapable of writing even faction war between 2 factions in a satisfying manner.
Yet you somehow think that, magically, if we introduce multiple antagonists, it will somehow get better???
I’m sorry but how does that make any sense? If they can’t even manage it with two, how the hell will they manage it with multiple ones?
100% believe if Blizzard had stuck to the faction conflict in BFA in a cohesive and interesting way, the notion of faction conflict might still be more universally well-perceived today.
Sometimes it’s hard to see where the Horde begins and where the Alliance ends nowadays they are so similar in scope and function.
Big to all the roleplayers out there portraying disgruntled everyday citizens of both factions, be they soldiering folk, commoners or community leaders with an axe to grind, but at the same time respecting the armistice or what ever (on the surface, wink wink)
While Jaina Proudmoore and Thrall Councilman might be sipping 0% alcohol beers in Peacetown, that don’t mean John Stormwind and Giantstalker Swinebro can’t hate each others guts and maybe just maybe sometimes let that spill out in border regions or the frontier. Especially if one or the other decides to walk into the opposite side’s backyard.
And lets face it, nothing has united the peoples of Argent Dawn like a good, chaotic and cool RP-PvP campaign, whether its been hundreds of participants or maybe just a couple of dozen brave scrappers itching for a scrap.
People need to realise that lore is permissive. Anything expressed in official World of Warcraft material that Blizz have yet to decry is the canon from which roleplayers should draw from. Anything outside of the bounds of the canon is… Non-canon. We should stick to what Blizz says exists because nothing but what they say exists actually does. We aren’t free to add to it, only to play within the bounds that have been set. By your logic it’s valid to play a made-up race of cloud dwelling half-frogs with super sci-fi technology that joined the Horde just last week, since Blizz haven’t said outright that’s not a thing.
For what it’s worth. With how people goof on MoP*, I always felt its cinematic reflected a solid example of Alliance-Horde relations. Inherently distrustful and quick to hostility, yet still able to band together when faced with a greater (fat) threat. Faction conflict does not have to mean a total war of annihilation to be acknowledged (in regards to RP), just as it’s silly to expect everyone to forgive and forget past conflicts, hold hands and sing around a campfire the second an armistice is supposedly established.
*(If that public opinion has changed, and I’m stuck in the past. Uh. “Who goofs on MoP?” You wouldn’t know them. They go to a different school)
I dont know where you see me coming to that conclusion.
What I did say however, maybe you are referencing to that, is that I believe writing a storyline about “overcoming the past” could be done much better with faction unification and dealing with the renegades of that scenario and with internal conflicts. It would give room for more compelling plots instead of just “All old is bad, lets change everything” that Blizz has done with every single storyline with that trope over the last expansions. That was the point of my argument, nothing more and nothing less.
Are the storywriters of Blizz capable to actually do that? Absolutely not in their current state. Their storytelling has been a mess for many years already, their worldbuilding became worse and worse. Now we are in the times where the quality of worldbuilding and storytelling is actually worse than what we had in that big bad bald man-expansion. Thats something I believe many could agree upon.
For Blizz to improve on their storytelling they actually have to think about making their stories make sense within the world instead of 100% committing to “rule of cool” and “gameplay > lore” alone. Otherwise we get the same plots but in different colors or playable races that dont make sense whatsoever and that require heavy use of headcanon to even be somewhat consistent like the Earthen. And in lesser form also the Dracthyr, Velves etc.
Because thats what they have done very extensively over the last years and it shows. At least back in the day they were trying to make stuff have a place somewhere that made sense. Heavy emphasis on trying. Although arguing about this is effectively pointless because we all know that Blizz hasnt been handling their intellectual properties very well over last 10, arguably even 15 years.
Or, to return to the initial topic with roleplay:
Right now Blizzards storywriters are similar to your average stormwindian “I pay for the game, I rp whatever I want regardless of lore and setting. If you dont like it get /ignore’d because you are very mean”-roleplayer. They could write good stories, but even if they do their stories would rarely be be what people expect of Warcraft. Just too square to fit in a circle.
Now that Undermine is officially out I can answer this.
Not every member of Bilgewater Cartel is a member of the Horde. The Kezanite branch of the cartel is, but for a goblin to join the Horde they need to sign an actual contract for it, and their service to the Horde remains only for as long as their contract specifies. The Undermine branch of the company remains neutral.
Since the Bilgewater contract with the Horde comes with exclusivity to work only for the Horde, Bilgewater incentivises goblins to sign by offering better pay and benefits to make up for the loss of revenue caused by losing access to Alliance markets.
Goblins can and do change Cartels frequently, with each Cartel employing headhunters to poach promising talent from rivals. The Cartels aren’t nations, they’re just companies, and ultimately a goblin’s loyalty is only to themselves and whoever is currently paying them. This is how Gazlowe was poached to become the new Bilgewater Trade Prince – although he was previously Steamwheedle, he simply received a better deal when there was a vacancy for the role.
Revilgaz also recently ditched Steamwheedle and became the Trade Prince of the newly formed Blackwater Cartel after the pirate crew of the same name decided to go “legit” (they still do piracy as a side gig, but their biggest revenue comes from shipping and logistics these days).
Ultimately goblins are fundamentally neutral first and foremost, and there’s no way of knowing what contract a goblin has before you ask them. Even being Bilgewater isn’t a guarantee that they’re Horde – and being Steamwheedle doesn’t guarantee they’re neutral either (see Renzik, who confirms he has a contract with the Alliance through SI:7). Ask to see their contract, not their Cartel affiliation. The questline also mentions that there’s goblins who also have no Cartel affiliation what so ever. With how obsessed goblins are with legalese, you can bet they keep a copy on their person at all times.
Mainly from the part where you suggested the more aggressive elwments of both factions could splinter from the main factions into smaller renegade groups.
Yeah this one.
A couple of problems with this argument:
A) It could. Not it would. We don’t have evidence to suggest either way, though I am pessimistic based on the current state of affairs.
B) By doing away with faction conflict, you are by definition changing something very old and integral to the setting.
For sure. Will they though? Probably not. As you say yourself:
And what is so wrong about that? If your Dracthyr is not tied to either faction and would like to explore the world then that’s okay. There’s literally nothing lorebreaking about that. Why do you care so much about people you’ll probably never interact with attending market events?
T h i s and BfA’s storyline literally showed how bad it is.
Every time I mention that Orcs like Saurfang probably exist more than you think in the Horde, people tend to stereotype the race as “Garrosh-lite, hurr durr me want war”, completely unaffected by trauma and lasting mental scars and such.
If these people paid attention to the setting and quests, the complete opposite has been shown to be the case. For example, the Burning of Teldrassil was a direct reference to the Path of Glory and the Draenei genocide to Orcs like Saurfang. Additionally, the Warsong were shattered after Garrosh and their new chieftain has introduced a new chapter for their clan where she vouches the Warsong will never repeat the mistakes of the past . Orcs (in general) want to redeem their race. That’s the entire point. If your character doesn’t want to, what’s the point of them still being in Thrall’s Horde? It’s the basic premise when you roll an Orc that the world believes you to be a merciless monster, but in reality, your people are trying to find a place in this world, free from demonic influence, dictated by honor and the lessons of your ancestors.
There is a significant number of people on Argent Dawn who are emotionally invested in the Alliance-versus-Horde conflict and consider it the most engaging aspect of the Warcraft setting.
Their enthusiasm for this conflict often leads them and their characters to clash OOC and IC clash with people and characters who are less interested in that aspect of the setting.
In some cases, this enthusiasm is so strong that it leads to a strong distaste of cross-faction and neutral roleplayers, or even roleplayers who simply don’t partake in faction conflict roleplaying, which is held up as the highest form of RP.
It’s nothing new. I recall people complaining about “filthy neutrals” as far back as late Wrath of the Lich King, when it was in vogue to hate on anything to do with the Argent Crusade.
When ruled over by warmongers, since they’re a very hierarchical race that put a lot of value on obedience to one’s chief/warchief.
? What are you talking about lol. I was talking about how you can have a sentiment of paranoia and distrust among your characters/groups towards neutral-leaning races and Dracthyr stand out the most now due to the things I mentioned. Yeah they’re free to explore the world and have their peaceloving hippie talks in the middle of a capital city, I’m just saying how pro-faction characters will probably react to that and how it will impact the general view of them. It’s not like NPC Dracthyr characters encourage the opposite stance either.
For what it’s worth, the lessons of the orcs’ ancestors tell nothing about living in peace. Long before the Legion came into play the orc shamans didn’t hesitate to drown an entire island/small continent inhabited by the ogres in order to destroy their arcane-based, oppressive empire with no care for whatever was inhabiting the same area. Neither did the arakkoa or the botani employ anything resembling civility. Over a half of Gorgrond was a completely hostile environment biologically driven to kill and/or assimilate everything in sight, the high arakkoa simply deemed everyone else savages unworthy of talking to, and the wingless ones were hardly any better than the Void-worshipping mongrels we now see in the Outland. Add to it the simplicity and lack of restraint of the elementals of Draenor, and you see that fighting for survival with no holds barred was a norm for the orcs of Draenor, not an exception, and the honor as a concept either extended towards their kin alone simply because no one else would understand it, or merely regarded the things that aren’t supposed to be touched, like the Void or the dark shamanism. Everything else was allowed.
Yeah, guys, we need to actually work together to combat one of THE big bads of the world, who wants nothing more than kill everyone and raise them into eternal undead service to shroud the world in death and ice-
I guess my arguement is that saying “On the whole/in the mainstream, the factions working together makes the most sense, and they’ve worked together more than not” is a valid point that doesn’t countermand “-and some people just want to kick heads in because of bad blood and grudges”
Acting like Neutrals were Bad And Wrong was and always has been kind of silly, IMO.
Edit: Not that I’m too surprised - when I joined in MoP, I was semi-frequently getting whispers from people going “Hnah, ACKSHULLY, you CAN’T be a Silver Hand Paladin, because they don’t exist anymore!”
Legion may or may not have made me Somewhat Smug, I can’t lie.
to all the roleplayers out there portraying disgruntled everyday citizens of both factions, be they soldiering folk, commoners or community leaders with an axe to grind, but at the same time respecting the armistice or what ever (on the surface, wink wink)