This eliminates the point of M+ entirely. They wanted it to become a 5 man progression system to go alongside raiding for PvE but in order for that to happen then:
can’t be a thing. Adding a timer is the easiest way of giving a sense of progression along with higher health and damage for each level-up on the keystone.
Your suggestion also removes any reason whatsoever for pushing keys unless they add in continous cosmetic rewards from hitting certain keystone levels. Even then the feature itself will be significantly less successful.
That’s fine and all but it won’t be tough at all thanks to how loot is thrown at us at a ridiculous rate. Just like heroics and regular mythics haven’t been relevant far into the expansion since TBC introduced heroic dungeons then the same will happen to M+ if there is no timer to pressure you should you want to reach a higher keystone level.
The only thing that ever will block a player from completing a dungeon without any timer is bosses dealing too much damage to handle or taking so long to kill that you hit the enrage timer thanks to insufficient dps.
You really feel threatened by players who wanna wait for hero for every boss? Maybe they enjoy slow content and CCing mobs or taking hours to finish dungeons… what’s bothering you? They won’t steal your glory, I’m pretty sure you’ll be finishing higher keys than they will. Plus, as I said, adding a timer for higher keys might be alright since it’s just for prestige.
On the contrary, this is the type of content that allows people who have done the grunt work to still have something to push for and excel at (without having to wait around for brand new stuff). Those who are not interested in it can stick to standard Mythics or partake in raids. As it stands, there’s two methods for people to gear with. I haven’t raided seriously since WotLK - it is something I consider but not my main interest, meaning I actually have a choice now. Back then, it was raids or bust.
MDI is its own event that is free to house its own rules. Last I checked, we weren’t talking about MDI.
So, what, because someone has less time they feel deserving of more rewards to balance against Joe Soap who has plenty of time?
Hence my point about finding like-minded people.
This has no real relevance - not when there are normals, heroics, mythics, and mythic plus, all waiting for those who want X or Y format.
Everyone else is pointing out how you could go about it. Finding like-minded people goes both ways. Those who want to push seriously find similar minded people. If you wanted to take 10 hours clearing Waycrest Manor with friends to enjoy the scenery and handle mobs any way you please AND claim a timed-reward at the end thanks to there always being a chest, you can do so without encroaching on others.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I hazard a guess that nobody holding a contrary opinion to your suggestion is threatened by this topic at all.
I admit that there is a joy in timed runs but it’s also denying slow placed players a lot of fun. I wouldn’t mind having dungeon bosses requiring HPS or DPS requirements like raid bosses, in fact I would like that a lot. It’s the timer imo that’s hurting the game. I’m willing to compromise to have a timer put at maybe 10+ or 15+ because I do admit that there is a positive side to having a timer but you have to admit that it has a lot of negative sides as well.
Nothing says you have to do it within the timer if you want to chill beyond it. I don’t know how many others you’d find who don’t care as well but you can just let the timer lapse or ignore it if you find it too much pressure. The whole point of M+ is that you are up against the clock with extra obstacles.
Solution for him then would be to lower the but remove extra obstacles that way it would kind of balance things out but you are right you can’t actually remove the kind of kills the point of m+ then tbh.
Open up LFG Dungeons - you’ll find tonnes of groups forming ‘for the weekly’ throughout the day. These are people who wish to complete a relatively high key but don’t necessarily care if they do it on time.
Anything below 10 for a half-decent group is not exactly difficult, but if you wanted an even easier ride you could focus on the middle-ground that has one single affix and not a whole lot of scaling. Hell, they even provide 385+War/Titanforged rewards which can compete with higher keys despite being much easier.
Today I helped boost some friends by speed-clearing various M0’s - they received 370 rewards. 370 IL on average and you’re primed for timed, even earlier if you’re experienced. I personally levelled this Shaman, started with basic timed-keys (2-4) after 360, farmed 6’s to 380, and am now farming 8-10+ as 400.
That is the joy of this format - it recycles content in an endless setting that gives you an option outside of just raiding - and it’s not like you are being punished in any way by it, outside of the community. I can understand if you’re a bit threatened by the LFG PuG system where Joe Soap is demanding 400IL, 2k RIO score and Curve achievement for a +2 timed Mythic, but as I keep saying, this is the point where you find like-minded people when you know your limit. This cuts out all that drivel and you not only get to do whatever you want at whatever pace you want but you also still gain rewards.
To say that a mode like this hurts the game when it is one of the more popular for those who have done the ground-work and fleshed out their characters to max, whilst also being usable for non-competitive players to also gear up, is laughable at best.
You’re the one who misunderstood me, though admittedly i didn’t exactly put it across in a proper manner by quoting your point the way i did. I quoted your point as a way of highlighting it further, while the part right after is me agreeing with how being able to simply CC most and a kill a few, like usually was the case with Shattered Halls HC, means there can’t be a continous difficulty progression without a timer or something similar.
yeah its really silly, because Mythic plus is what keeps my interest to the game for the most part.
raiding is fun yeah but its only on set times and for 4-6 hours a week, and I quit pvping 11 years ago so mythic plus is a savior to this game.
and then I see people trying to butcher it just so they can get spoonfed for even more rewards and that’s very sad.
Same here. I’ve ALWAYS been about dungeons - and yes, I was there doing Shattered Halls HC timed dungeons back pre-nerf in TBC. I’d go as far as say that point in WoW’s history was my utmost favourite time to be a WoW player, when heroics actually felt heroic.
I have no issue with raids, but the smaller and more accessible side of dungeons (without lacking in competition, especially a choosable scaling one that timed provides) is nothing but positive for the game when it can apply to people gearing or competing, without harming each other.
You do realize that the whole M+ scenery is designed as if it’s one entity.
The bosses aren’t as complex as raid bosses, but adding the multitude of bosses, and trash mobs amount to a raid boss and like raid bosses have enrage timers, so do M+.
Having no timers could simply mean bring 4 healers, a tank and just sleep through until it’s finished.
This is why enrage timers are added to bosses, so people won’t cheese bosses with a huge amount of healers / tanks.
The same goes for M+, think of it as a raid encounter, a single boss with multiple phases.
Their current idea of a catch-up system does that already. Only takes a look at the proposed ilvl changes to WQ’s and emissary rewards to understand that normal BoD and anything below a M+7 hardly will be a part of the gear progression for the next 2 months until patch 8.2.
Many people here don’t seem to get the point. People don’t want easy dungeons and yeah you can just ignore the timer and run the dungeon at your own pace, but the thing is the timer is for the most part the only difficult part about Mythic+.
What people are talking about would be system were the dungeon gets harder in their own content instead of just a timed run. Really tough bosses with strong enemy packs in which you are almost expected to wipe a lot to get it right and that can last a long time to get through. So pretty much small 5 man raids that can keep scaling higher and higher.
![:joy:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
![:timer_clock:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/timer_clock.png?v=6" ":timer_clock:")
but remove extra obstacles that way it would kind of balance things out ![:thinking:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
but you are right you can’t actually remove the