Current reward and rating system of retail PvP needs a complete overhaul

Community General Discussion
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I wish to put forward some suggestions and appeal that developers like David Hollings, may kindly take forward.

  1. All PvP game modes need their own unique seasonal title and mount reskins as 3v3 Gladiator and 10v10 Hero of the Horde/Alliance. For example, Solo Shuffle is a Solo Q mode of 3v3 Arena and would be great to have its own mount skin. Similalry, 8v8 is a Solo Q RBG, and is played differently compared to 10v10, and hence must have its own rating titles and achievements, which should be different from the decade-old RBG titles. Of course both modes must have their respective Gladiator mount reskins. Same goes for 2v2 mode as well. Doing this change would certainly increase participation, as players will have their respective incentives

  2. The current PvP Saddle system is outdated and redundant. Even a casual PvPer has dozens of vicious saddles laying waste in their bags with nothing to purchase as we already have the PvP vicious mounts. Firstly, these saddles should also be Warband bound, as the progress toward the seasonal bar is via any character, and secondly, but most importantly, players should be able to use these saddles as a currency to customize their PvP mounts, be they vicious or Glad mounts. This change would completely change the face of retail PvP as this will infuse incentives for everyone, starting from casuals to elites

  3. Rated Battleground 10v10 is the only game mode that exists in WoW and has not been replicated in any other game mode. It would be great if you could take care of this unique mode. Hero achievers get the seasonal titles like Verdant Hero of the Horde or Draconic Hero of the Horde, but they don’t get to use the title in game, and instead they get to use only Hero of the Horde. Hence, there is no difference between someone who achieved this feat during Cata S1 or the last season of Dragonflight. Please make this change so that all Hero achievers would be able to use their earned seasonal title in game retrospectively. It will be a huge incentive for RBG players and would instantly revitalize the game mode

  4. Participation in normal battlegrounds and rated battlegrounds should yield 500 to 1k gold for victory and 250 to 500 gold for loss. This would be a huge incentive for casuals and would encourage participation

  5. Dragonflight World PvP was insane. It was just fantastic and attracted a lot of participation and on-spot rivilaries/duels. Please capitalize on the same. Unique titles and mounts (not a Bee mount) for this mode would be huge. More titles like Horde/Alliance Slayer titles and achievements, along-with WPvP special gear cosmetics, would massively incentivise players and encourage participation

There are several other suggestions, but these would be the top five. It is an earnest request that PvP developers kindly take this forward and help the retail PvP community. We might be quite a few less in number compared to casual PvE players, but still, these fewer players also amount to several thousand players worldwide. I hope the developers and higher authorities will someday listen to our appeals and will help us.

Sincere Regards
Sunny

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Bumping the thread with the hope that this stays alive and catches the attention of the developers.

In doing so, I would like to add that Conquest points, Bloody Tokens, and Vicious Saddles should all be account-wide as well, as honor points have been made. Sending Alts, a RNG crate to get 5 items of the same type is a cruel joke on the time and effort put in by the player to earn the Conquest points! If I can send the conquest points to Alts, they should just be usable as honor points and not via any RNG mode.

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There are already too many unobtainable rewards in the game for people outside a few elite players, we don’t need more.

Let them be exchangeable for massive amounts of Honor/Conquest or Marks of Honor, or even crafting goodies, gold and consumables.

These are too high values especially since they’re repeatable content. If there has to be a gold reward for participation in battlegrounds, it should be comparable to the amount of gold earned by other instanced activities and scaled for similar time investment. In the case of Normal Battleground payout, it should be comparable to the gold rewards of a 10-15min Heroic or Mythic0 dungeon run after considering repair costs that exist in PvE.

Though instead of gold, I’d prefer Honor payout to be increased so that players who join late or miss a season can farm enough honor to also purchase older appearances. Then you can add satchels for crafting reagents or simple gold to be purchaseable with it as well for whoever is not interested in old stuff.

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Excellent suggestions indeed. Thanks.

I wish to add that the developers need to think about some decisions, which currently makes no sense. The biggest irony is the Conquest transfer to Alts, when everything is said to be account-wide. If Conquest is also transferred to Alts, which it should be, then it should be transferred directly as points and NOT via a RNG box. Yesterday I opened 3 boxes with the same necklace, and the same has happened over the past seasons. It is a cruel joke on the hard-earned conquest and the invested time/efforts in the game.

Also, having taxes on honor transfers also makes no sense at all. Its my earned honor points, and as time-warped badges are transferred across alts, so should be honor! There should be no difference at all… I hope players can address and talk about this here.

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Yes, current rated system needs complete overhaul. Rewards and ranks in each mode should be put as % based related on the players position compared to others on the specific mode, each mode should be treated separately, also decay system that drops players from these positions due inactivity if the character is not played for long period of time, decay mostly to incentive people not sitting their mains while they stomp lower ratings they belong to, on multitude of alts of same class for example, aka smurfing.

Intentionally playing lower brackets one really belongs to in a competitive setting is called smurfing, wows rated system does nothing to this. Wow pvp system can be equivalent of heavyweight pro mma fighter equiped with fire axe for bonus and put in a ring vs lightweight beginner who has never fought in a competition to his life. This is not real competition nor hold any value in any competitive sense, it only stops progress of the new participant before his career even begin and eventually does even more harm on the whole game on a long run.

Its about time we ditch the participation dependant outdated system aswell thats ranks and rewards are tied on meaningless fixed rating numbers that vary immensively between modes player activity and seasons depending on multiple variations. Needless to say that as whole the wow rated system for PvP is extremely bad and should at no circumstances even taken seriously or called competitive with the system and balance between specs in mind we have in the game.

Some overtuned S+ healer for 4 months vs some C tier neglected healer is hardly even a meaningful fight either, not with this balance we have in the game. The game just needs more active devs on these regards and a lot improvements in many regards for more people to find PvP more fun.

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Tbf - it does make sense to add rewards in Solo shuffle / blitz. 3v3 imo ends up the same way as 0.01% cut-off for M+ or Mythic raiding, unless you have a team, it’s really hard to compete.
This means it’s usually just the top players each season doing the climb. But SS / Blitz at least seems to have more players than “just the few elites”

At least from pvpleaderboards it seems 2735 characters are above 2400 (including alts)
4027 above 2300
6064 are above 2200

Maybe more of those 2-5k people below 2400 would be encouraged to keep quing if they could earn a mount for it similar to 3s?

Blitz the numbers are:
Above 2400: 2101
Above 2300: 2332
Above 2200: 2687

Looking at 3v3:

2400+ : 1145
2300+: 1706
2200+: 2498

I really don’t see it hurting the game, that they “just” take the Gladiator mount, do a copy+paste with a new colour

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There already is rewards in solo/blitz, all rated modes share same ranks except glad.

Not true, on a normal season before shuffles both 2v2 and 3v3 were commonly played through both lfg and friend teams.

Because system is participation based and people spam soloqs so arena is too deflated to have value to be played by anyone in a participation based system. Read my post before your post.

If every mode were put to % based rewards on ones position in the specific mode, it would not matter how many people play in whichever mode, and you would have more people playing whatever they wish to play.

The current wow rated system rely entirely on participation, and they put soloqs share same rewards with arenas coordinated modes. Soloqs are also something which healers hate and that dont reward healers in general, ques will remain long.

For easy example if every mode share same rewards and we take all the players from one mode and put them to another mode, then there hardly is value to play the mode which lacks players now if it just became exponentially harder to gain anything there.

Y being arenas and X being shuffles, that is what is currently wrong in the game and then you have all the healer issues for shuffle top of it making ques for these shuffles long for dps. On the picture I draw the Y has no value to be played in a system that is built entirely on participation. This needs to be fixed among other things.

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I meant the glad mount, should have been more clear that’s on me!

You can’t really “Not true” when I start with “imo” xD But you even say it “before shuffles”… But we now have shuffles? So what relevance does it have now?

Yeah, for me that just shows people prefer soloqs over premades… Be it because X, Y or Z?

But they aren’t… We have to go by how they actually work, and not hypothetical “% based”… Currently PVP for most rewards are CR or win based. Glad is as far as I know, 50 wins above 2400 in 3v3. It was a % based reward, but no more. So giving a glad like mount with the same structure in Blitz and SS, it may encourage people to play more.

Going with a % based system, I would fear there would be a lot of “gate keeping” with people trying to snipe each other, getting their alts up and throw games yadda yadda to remain at the top 0.XX%

That’s why I was trying to say, adding rewards (In this case mounts) that are different from each other into their respective game modes, people would play what they want and maybe push higher due to a carrot on the stick :slight_smile:

I get that… But I am not trying to solve the inherent problems with PVP… So the whole “healers wont que” are another topic. I’m solely speaking about me not seeing a problem with them adding more rewards in PVP and replying to the “We dont need more rewards for the few elite players” comment.

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We could put every mode % based depending their position to others in each mode separately so it dont matter which mode whoever prefers to play. Sorry I cant draw with mouse or much in general.

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Excellent replies above, and it is fine to have different opinions. What I feel is that the current system is not only outdated, but there is a lack of vision and understanding of anything. Some of the basic changes probably need a simple hotfix rather than a complete overhaul.

For example, if Timewarped badges can be transferred between Alts without any taxes, then Honor too should be without any taxes. After all, I am transferring points within my characters! Similarly, conquest too should be the same. There is absolutely no point in having a RNG box! I am sure all here would agree that we have lost several hunders of points opening these meaningless RNG boxes, giving us the same item! I really can’t understand the logic behind this, because there isn’t any logic!

Coming back to titles and awards. Imagine if Blitz would have been a SoloQ/DuoQ mode with 10v10 instead of 8v8, but having totally new titles, like Horde/Alliance Defender, Guard, Lord, High Lord, with the top title being God of the Horde/Alliance or whatever, imagine how big the incentive would be for any player, be casual or elites!

Similalry, if RBG Hero achievers, would also get to use in-game their seasonal titles like Draconic HoTH/A, Crimson HoTH/A, instead of just HoTH/A, (this change would just need a simple hotfix probably), it would change the scope of dead RBGs once for all! People will Q up for the achievement because someone who achieved it in Cata Season 1, or Dragonflight Season 1, or TWW Season 2 next would all be different.

Now imagine 2v2, 3v3, SS all giving a recolor of Glad Mount! Won’t each bracket explode with participation!?

Coming to the super casuals, how about bringing rated achievements/titles and a respectable mount (not a crap bee) for World PvP!? The WPvP in Dragonflight was epic, and Blizz had the opportunity to capitalize on it. Unfortunately they didn’t… it has a huge scope for everyone…just need some incentives

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Biggest problem of wow pvp is matchmaking system in my opinion.
1 like random players vs premade in epic bgs and normal bgs.
2 there is no big penalty for leavers/

3 then they can go on the fixing of the other things.

AND about arena . my biggest problem was that in 2v2 it was a hard or unfair match if it was 2 dps vs 1dps with healer.
it should be like this

2Dps vs 2dps.
1dps with healer vs 1 dps with healer

one of the biggest disappointment in wow pvp is its match making

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Making all rewards be %-wide compared to all other players in a gamemode will only reduce overall participation. The reason Shuffle and Blitz are relatively more popular is not because of gameplay, it is because of rewards and ease of access to get them.

Making brackets for rewards being % based against the rest of population will only decrease the number of players as many will just think the rewards too unfeasible.

As a backing of my claim, I suggest you look at participations during the most easy-to-get glad periods. The vast majority paying the bills on the PvP doesn’t care about skill or prestige, they only care about their fun and collections.

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Definately! I agree the system overall needs an overhaul… But my comment was again more based on that they shouldn’t add more rewards for “the few elite” where it seems, that due to SoloQ more people are above the “same” threshold for rewards but currently gets nothing because 3v3 is still seen as the “main” game mode. (Nothing = game mode specific like the Gladiator mount, I do know elite sets etc. are shared across all game modes)

By all means, make arena better, but what I tried to get across was, that it seems, that due to people not needing a premade group and the ladders being scored on CR achievement rather than the old gladiator system of 0.01% iirc, the rewards wouldn’t be “More unobtainable rewards apart from the few elites” but could maybe incentivize more players to que for longer rather than stopping at 2.2k or 2.3k

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I had a friend try out healing in SS (He played some 2s in SL and rest is just random BGs) he had 192cr and mostly greens… Opposite healer was vastly above his skill level, and the screenshots he showed me from the dps players whispering and flaming him, one of whom even went “lol 192cr I tell you, just quit pvp man” was astonishing :joy:

Imagine you see a player that is clearly quiet up in a game above his skill level, and instead of blaming the match making, you decide to flame the player for not being at the level he never said he was at :joy:

Obviously he decided to quit and not que for SS again

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For that you need people . All they have done last year is layoffs .also it’s an open secret that majority of wow population is pve centric people . So I don’t see it’s implementation if any

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I already explained it but I can give it one more attempt as I see there is still some confusion of the current rated system or what % based rewards actually would do.

As the system is participation based currently and ranks are tied on fixed numbers on certain ratings and blizz introduced multitude of modes which all share same rewards into this system then it creates variation between modes depending how many people play certain mode or not.

It actually lessened the participation overall as some have now quit entirely or wandered of to classic or just quit as not all wish to play shuffles. What you are suggesting only benefits people who enjoy shuffles, my suggestion benefits all of the playerbase.

Wow already once had ranks as % based, it means your ranks are compared to other peoples position in the specific ladder and you dont need to care about the rating number, if you are fighting r1 and mglad people on 1600 then the 1600 rating does not mean that you are “challengers”. You are factually quite high in the bracket then if you only meet high exp players and you should be rewarded correctly for the challenge the matches present.

% based ranks in each mode separately benefits everyone and lets all play the exact mode they wish to play no matter where majority would play it would not affect any of the modes, your suggestions only benefits shuffles. This is the best I can explain it.

  • If you fight the highest exp of players on 1600 rating then you should be rewarded according the challenge presented to you not the fixed rating number you were fighting on, making each modes ranks % based separately also with a decay system would try ensure this.
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I am so glad that we are finally able to see different players pitching in with their views and suggestions. I feel what Blizzard must do is hire people for PvP department. I am sure if any of the current experienced players are given the responsibility, we can fix most of the issues if not all in practically no time.

Fixing MMR and the overall reward system may take time and tackling bigger issues like the recently brought up addon issue to evade premades etc in epic bgs will take a deeper dive, but fixing things like the redundant saddle system or bringing a mount and unique titles for each bracket or making conquest transfers to Alts exactly like Timewarped badges without any RNG or taxes can just be fixed and implemented without much of an effort.

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Blizzard just announced a KSM reskin for 2850 M+ score. Certainly a great step for several casuals to keep pushing. They can make a similar decision for PvP as well with Glad Mount reskins for each bracket and PvP mount customizations using Vicious Saddles…

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we all know they will not hire more people .microsoft has laid off alot of people .instead of fixing overwatch 2 their answer was to lay off most team 4 people .now that game is on life support after marvel rivals launched .

same will happen to wow once a big juggernaut like riot mmorpg or some other surprise hit comes into picture . all people who expected microsoft to be saviour of blizzard and activision were sadly all proved wrong with time .as the old saying goes “this one aint it ,boss”

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One of our top rated players, just shared this post on Twitter and this hits all the points that the PvP community is suffering from with Blizzard giving a deaf ear to us.

https: //x. com/ Bigmoranx/status/1881429610908520940