Dark Rangers in Stormwind City - RP

Argent Dawn
221

I disagree for reasons repeated 3 (!) times already :goat:

The argument many have against Kaldorei Darkfallen isn’t the usual “we hate new things!!” fiasco.

I’m not sure they were ever brainwashed. Manipulated while in a vulnerable state? Yes, but their will was still their own. They chose to take part in the Night Elf genocide, that’s what Alliance characters will have the most problem with.

That’s what we’ve been saying. Not that Kaldorei Darkfallen can’t be roleplayed, just that it will be very hard for these characters to peacefully roam Alliance lands without IC violence and prejudge. They’re war criminals, and unlike DKs they haven’t yet received an official pardon.

222

Sure, as much as the Cata-Andorhal Forsaken choose to partake in the slaughter of the Alliance forces, I suppose?

Most Alliance characters ICly shouldn’t even be a part of the War of Thorns/Battle of Darkshore since it was almost solely(except for some random adventurers) a Night Elf/Worgen thing… Hell it was a whole quest thingy where the Night Elves said the Alliance failed them

223

Night elf Dark Rangers weren’t raised until 8.1. They objectively did not contribute to Teldrassil - they died defending it.

2 Likes
224

Yeah. They helped with the Darkshore murder.

1 Like
225

In case of the Kaldorei Dark Rangers that is still less then what the Dark Irons, Worgen, Blood-turned-Void Elves, Death Knights or Demon Hunters ever did to the Alliance or its members. Hell, its less then what most Horde races tried to do to Alliance races.

So your point???

226

My point is that it’s what they did… It wasn’t Teldrassil, it was Darkshore.
It’s also vastly more recent and more fresh in people’s minds.
That is my point!!!

1 Like
227

t.m.w. lorewise most people who are anti-Night Elf Dark Rangers shouldn’t even have been at Darkshore as it was an Night Elf/Worgen battle with a little sprinkle of Adventurers on top.

If I have to belief current Stormwind, 99% of its citizens were there to see the newly raised Night Elves betray the the Kaldorei. (Mind this is after the Kaldorei told the alliance to go freck themselves and the’ll fix things themselves cause the Alliance failed them)

228

Not being present does not make you incapable of knowing something has happened. Attacks on Teldrassil and Darkshore are very major things for the Alliance, and word of it would spread quickly, given that they’re Night Elven heartlands.

I’m of the opinion that, with the new customization options, Dark Rangers should be RPed by those wanting to do so. I also think that, yes, the option being available for Alliance races presages that some of these Dark Rangers will be affiliated with, if not outright join, the Alliance.

The current lore, however, does not support that Dark Rangers are accepted, welcome, or even tolerated in Alliance lands, in any way, shape or form. We’re working with the current lore, not upcoming lore. Therefore, my character still considers them enemies of the Alliance and will not hesitate to react aggressively. Should Blizzard bring out lore to support Dark Rangers joining the Alliance, he’ll have a lot of apologizing to do.

What pains me the most is that the only Dark Rangers I’ve seen are the run of the mill ‘I just jumped out of the way of fourteen different people attacking me, and now I am going to make a witty comment’, as opposed to interesting takes on the concept.

I assume I’ll run into the latter when I tire of walking around Stormwind with not a thought in my head.

4 Likes
229

I’m pretty sure fighting for Sylvanas during the Battle for Darkshore contributes toward night elf genocide. But I won’t get into a slogging match about which bad thing was worse.

I don’t think we can change each others minds at this point, and that’s fine!

(Somehow accidentally ended up deleting this post. They should really add “are you sure you want to deleted this” to the process. I should sleep.)

1 Like
230

Trailer park druids.

Anyway, I’m gonna be a despicable centrist here and say that yes, AD on the whole defaults to reactionary shunning of new things and happily blends OOC dislike with RP to push out undesirables until all but the most devoted remain to play the New Thing.

However, IC dislike and 0% trust of Dark Rangers we just fought last year as the elite of the army of the brutal banshee queen, one of Azeroth’s greatest monsters is perfectly rational and valid.

It evens out to undead elves freshly swarming into our cities really having no leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about bigot locals bullying the mortally challenged.

231

I believe a lot of people are just, quite frankly, missing the point.

First, that this isn’t an argument against dark ranger RP, but against dark ranger RP in Stormwind.

Second, that there is no indication that the Kaldorei/Quel’Dorei dark rangers mentioned in the questline have yet joined the Alliance, but that they intend to, and that is something that hasn’t happened yet. Therefore the issue, at least as I see it, is that people are acting as if it happened while they’d still be seen as enemies and Horde members by the Alliance.

Third, that yes, it’s most likely they will be rejoining the Alliance, hence why we have that option in game, but Blizzard is still to implement it in the actual storyline in terms of quests or any other indication. Just because we know something will happen, it doesn’t mean we should act like it already happened. It’s no different from people roleplaying out the pre-patch events for Shadowlands before it actually started or, since everyone likes to mention Drac’thyr, people RP’ing Drac’thyr before Dragonflight comes out.

Yes, we know Evokers will be a thing. Alas, it doesn’t mean we should be roleplaying them before they are actually a thing.

The best advice I can gather from this whole debate is that if you wish to RP a dark ranger wishing to rejoin their kin you are free to do so. Leave the Forsaken, wander about, try to find your place in the world. But don’t do it in an Alliance capital, town or military base. Not until that is actually implemented in game and Tyrande/Turalyon or some other figure accepts you back into the Alliance. Because otherwise until then you are just a factionless undead and the Alliance especially would not see anything but a traitor (Kaldorei case) or a Hordie, even worse, a loyalist of Sylvanas.

It’s a matter of time and patience, quite simple imho. In the meanwhile no one will mind a dark ranger hiding out in some forests here and there or sticking with the Forsaken and the lore we -currently- have in game. People will mind seeing them in Stormwind and there’s enough comments to point out that there’s a general negative feeling about their presence in an Alliance capital that can be best sorted out by avoiding it until Blizzard implements anything to indicate otherwise. Some may use the fact that customization option is available to Alliance in that sense, some, myself included, will see it simply as game mechanics, similar to Void Elf priests being able to spec into holy and use the Light or warlocks having their demon pets out in Stormwind without being attacked by NPC’s.

9 Likes
232

I think it’s bold to assume you’ll ever see a grand acceptance speech welcoming the dead elves into the alliance. It’s very much a Break Glass In Case Of Flagging Subs situation, handing more long desired fanbase options to the game without context.

Reminder that void elves still have no lore of how to get new void elves, nor a lore justification for shedding their spooky blueness for the blood elf look.

1 Like
233

Thing is, that it’s not about OOC hatred towards players who decided to RP a Darkfallen/Dark Ranger in SW. But don’t expect people to understand fully or approve said roleplayers. They also must understand that they sort of force a reaction from other RPers by interacting with them. Suffice to say, OOC harassment/hatred shouldn’t be a thing because of this.

But then I can give two customization examples.
Violet eyes for Ren’dorei - initially was just a bug but when they fixed it, people demanded for it to be returned as it was legit a cool thing, as they reasoned this. So Blizzard returned this customization option without providing any extra lore information on this. (I say extra, because probably previous ones exist already).

Darkmoon Eyes for Kaldorei - when Kaldorei got they fancy dark eyes, it was also brought as customization option and is also explained by the quests of how it happened.

But with Darkfallen, it’s different. It’s not just eyes, it’s an entire entity/appearance. And we were not given any lore for it or justification. Look at it this way: 99% RPers of SW don’t even know what is going on in Tirisfal Glades. Suddenly we have Dark Rangers walking casually around, saying they’re good now. It’s just natural that ICly people won’t understand them and some may push it towards lynching them up and for a good reason.

Concept of a Dark Ranger itself is great. Just as San’layn. I roleplayed San’layn but far, far away from hubs, as it would make most sense.
During Shadowlands, Death Knights in majority should be busy fighting in SL, rather than casually stroll in SW.
During Legion, Illidari should fight on the frontlines rather than casually stroll in SW, Ogri or SMC.

All these characters are a rare occurence in major cities. Also because how powerful they are. What if we have an Illidari that casually strolls around in SW and some drunkard decides to pester him up to the point of attacking him. Illidari can slice him. Can you imagine regular guards going against an Illidari? Just… no? So it’s also a balance of ‘power’.

When I RPed a DH, I was lurking away from the hubs or cities and had a fine RP of encountering a demon with his minions in Hinterlands.

So back to Dark Rangers. Concept is great, just doesn’t belong to SW.
And what is wrong suddenly with “Oh I was a baddie so now I want to be a goodie one”? That’s not how it works, lol. There’s a lot of psychological moments to consider.

A) When Anduin was under control of Zooval, for a relatively brief period of time, he began to doubt whenever his satisfaction of killing was his own. He takes time to contemplate, being afraid of his dark side.
B) Lots of war veterans post WW2 joined Mafia, because they couldn’t coupe up with “I was killing and suddenly its peace all over” + Vietnam situation, where is actually more close related to Dark Rangers as in both cases, these ‘soldiers’ were rejected.

So from how I see it, Dark Rangers today are:
A) Feeling guilty, afraid of being rejected by the people they once knew, finding own paths.
B) Continue to kill, because they grew used to that.

Either way, there are those PTSD moments and great opportunity to put them in use. Just use scrolls, conceal yourself. Lure people out of the villages, kill them. Or just ambush them on the roads. Sate your hunger for killing. OR go Luke Skywalker, exile yourself. Wander and try to find your place in this huge world. Instead of going to SW and “OwO wats dis?” mode.

There are huge potentials, wasted by a short-term need to satisfy quick and low-effort random RP in SW hub…

6 Likes
234

I don’t agree. They have historically also added a druid of the flame cat form and numerous bad guy armors. These do not carry any lore implications, they’re just cosmetic options.

235

It is, but it’s the only thing that would actually justify the whole DR in SW RP thing.

Right now we are at a stage where people try to justify it through game mechanics in the absence of lore, confusing the two altogether.

Perhaps the most conclusive comparison one can make to point out the fallacy here is with the San’Layn. Darkfallen customizations are not just for dark rangers, which people often forget, otherwise they’d apply only to hunters. They are for San’Layn too and pretty much any specially risen elf. Therefore, if we use game mechanics to approach this issue, does it mean San’Layn are now welcome in Stormwind and Orgrimmar despite being hostile Scourge and there being no lore to suggest otherwise ?

Again, I’d like to point out that’s game mechanics and, if anything, it further reinforces my argument since there are no void elves save for Alleria who have shed their blueberry skin. It’s just a customization option meant to offer us High Elves without actually doing so. And it further shows game mechanics have -nothing- to do with lore.

If anything, the Quel’Dorei Wayfarers on Telogrus are the only bit of lore we have on the matter and one may assume those are high elves who for whatever reason decided to visit their purple brethren and study a bit of shadow magic.

Again, the customization option isn’t only for dark rangers, but darkfallen, including San’Layn. All the lore we have suggests San’Layn to be hostile Scourge. According to your logic then San’Layn are now part of the Alliance/Horde and are welcome in Orgrimmar and Stormwind. Which, for anyone who has a clue about lore or any respect towards it, isn’t the case.

5 Likes
236

And thus, so are darkfallen, being a customization option without actual lore to justify it beyond player fancy and expression.

237

And thus, following in that reasoning, there’s no justification for any sort of darkfallen, including dark rangers, to walk around Stormwind unless or until Blizzard implements one in lore, either through questings, books, npc’s, etc.

8 Likes
238

I think that by adding these customisations without much accompanying lore blizzard have made an… unwise decision

:smirk:

4 Likes
239

Not really. They’ve made a very good decision! Because they’ve added these customization in order to bring back players after the SL droughts by giving them what they want. And for a normal realm or a pvp realm there’s no issue with it, cause no one cares. People get to play their fantasy and Blizz gets their money. It’s the RP realms that are problematic. And quite frankly, Blizzard doesn’t give a damn about RP. :face_exhaling:

Case in point, it has nothing to do with lore or with any intention from Blizz to make DR’s Alliance, but with subs.

240

Sort of. I think they could have specified more clearly that they’re just for the sake of customization tbh

2 Likes