Dark Rangers in Stormwind City - RP

At this point… Don’t you think even a tweet would be better than nothing ?

I’ve checked Danuser’s tweeter recently, instead of saying anything relevant about the lore, the lore director so to speak posts mogs and rates warcraft heroes. :upside_down_face:

I miss the days you could just mention Metzen in a tweet and he’d rush to explain something, even if it was just to say they retconned that or he completely forgot.

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True that, but let me hope… PLEASE!!!

Never! As my good pal, Friedrich Nietzsche once said, Hope, in reality, is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.

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There is a Dark Ranger(or a Death Knight with a bow and leather/mail armor) in service to the Ebon Blade at the Shadow Vault in Icecrown Citadel! So its not unheard of, I suppose?,

You know from Cata to BfA the Dark Iron’s weren’t accepted into the Alliance aswell, yet were allowed to fight beside them after more then 100 years(?) of animosity between the Dwarven Clans(thats way more bad blood then what the Dark Rangers did)…

And thats after they took over Ironforge!

I hope the same, alas I don’t count on it😔

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Why you have to bring Nietzsche into this??

Also to quote Eowyn “I am no man.”

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I never knew this, good to know! Its nice to know that there is actually a way for this to actually happen! I might have my Dark Ranger join the Ebon blade when all is said and done!

Let me live in hope and when its just a tweet I will be duly disappointed then :rofl:

There’s actually no lore to support this, and there is no lore against it either.

It’s the same with the rogue Death Knight argument, we do not know if every death knight is a part of the Ebon Blade, we do know the Ebon Blade considers every free death knight a member of their Order tho.

Hasn’t appeared in Stormwind after she was risen, she did appear in that Kul Tiran Valley after which she left with Derek Proudmoore, who also hasn’t appeared in Stormwind.

It’s true Alonsus Faol did appear in Stormwind, but Anduin had to smuggle him in, empty the Cathedral and still almost got him murdered by Turalyon and Genn when they met him, so, it wasn’t really something the Church or the common people would’ve apparently suppported.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Imhadria

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I was going with the Sylvanas books and small pieces of lore I have read here and there!

Thank you! I will read this up now! I really appreciate getting new lore to expand the lore horizons!! (and something to read)!!

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For the last few posts you and Valdarth have both been incredibly rude, and I’m really not sure why. Do you think that calling me facetious and unintelligent is helpful? You brought up the Forsaken delegation, I explained how that’s not relevant to the topic at hand.

This seems like a shift of the goal posts. You asked for examples of undead that were accepted and tolerated but not part of the Ebon Blade, and I provided you three off the top of my head. Yes, they have their own set of circumstances. Doubtless “dying in defence of the Night Elves” as the NElf Dark Rangers all did would also be their unique own set of circumstances as a special exemption.

But sure, here’s another example of an undead tolerated in Alliance lands, in the undead-hating land of Duskwood even: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blind_Mary

The day of the dead NPCs too: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Catrina https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Chapman

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Fillmaff This guy seems to have not been killed when Dalaran went back to the Alliance, so that fit as ‘Undead tolerated in Alliance lands’ :slight_smile:

Admiral Taylor’s ghost, of course.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/First_Mate_Snellig is an Alliance-friendly questgiver.

We know, thanks to the manga and previous events, that the Darkmoon Faire travels across the land and isn’t just sat on one island via portal as it is in game - they’ve got a number of undead members. Likewise, I skipped over naming the Argents who show up around the place.

Ultimately the point, however, is that yes - exceptions are clearly made depending on circumstances. It’s not “Ebon Blade yes, all other undead no”.

But yeah, there’s some examples of Undead being tolerated in Alliance lands that you asked for. Major and minor both.

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The whole “we want explicit lore spelling it out for us or it never happened” argument stops working when you ask one simple question in return.

Operating on the logic that new lore developments need to be spelled out explicitly and that we cannot operate on any assumptions, observations or connect any dots at all - where is it said that “Dark Rangers are not allowed in Stormwind City?”

Where is that precisely and actually written?

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This escalated quickly.

Is in the nominally undead-hating Alliance aligned land of Duskwood that is in actuality overrun with undead. She’s not waltzing around in Darkshire.

Game mechanics.

He also didn’t exist before Legion, but otherwise fair.

He’s a ghost, and not waltzing around an Alliance town.

You’d be better off linking the Ebon Blade NPCs patrolling around Alliance towns in the Shadowlands pre-patch who, re-using display IDs from ICC, could spawn as a plethora of races - most of them Horde.

Is not a valid excuse when it comes to Dark Rangers, though??? :stuck_out_tongue:

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Well I am still conflicted if to make an Alliance or Horde (High Elf) Dark Ranger. For Horde the RP setup is fairly easy for the Forsaken. For Alliance it is more complicated in the setting. If there is some lore that they can join the Alliance military, good. Otherwise putting her into something more neutral like the Argent Crusade makes more sense, they are probably quite accepting.

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Ebon Blade could be a good shout for your alliance Darkfallen! That or one of the more shadowy guilds who keep out of the limelight.

As for the Argent Crusade: Possibly? They’re obviously a Light-centric organization, and I imagine faith is a sort-of prerequisite for most Crusaders. Though like you said, they’re also quite open with what races they recruit, and work with classes like Druids who might not worship the Light.

Either way, it could make for an interesting redemption story?

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Suppose you could call upon their old pact with the Ebon Blade, the Ashen Verdict, and how that got them into Icecrown Citadel?

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Curses for replying before I’d finished the mandatory edit!
But yeah, could do :thinking:

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I wonder if they’re going to make the Darkfallen an order in itself that plays a role much like the Ebon Blade. You’ll have the dominant Dark Rangers (Horde), the San’layn (kind of neutral??) and fourth war undead elves brought back (Alliance).

In any case, they seemingly mirror the Ebon Blade in spirit in that regard. It was a curious decision - not - to give DK’s red eyes option.

It seems set up to be possible these groups are going to found something at the very least.

Technically speaking the lore has been spelled out plainly through the words of Dark Ranger Velonara when saying that some of her people are free to leave, but she wanders whether they’ll ever be accepted or not. Aka they haven’t been accepted yet, at this stage of the game. Otherwise she’d say they’ve joined the Alliance already. :upside_down_face:

By all means, we’re both connecting dots, it just leads in two different directions.

Are members of the Horde allowed in Stormwind City ? Are non-affiliated Undead allowed in Stormwind city ? Let’s use your very same reasoning here. As of yet Dark Rangers would still be seen as members of the Horde by the large majority (or loyalists, which is worse) or unaffiliated Undead should one know IC what occurred in Tirisfal.

Following in the same logic, Velonara’s words themselves would imply that Dark Rangers are not currently allowed on Alliance lands, otherwise she wouldn’t wander about them being accepted or not.

I doubt that was anyone’s intention and I apologize if it came out that way. It’s just that a few posts above you’ve made pretty much a Strawman argument which, as someone often involved in competitive debates in uni, has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Alas, no one meant to be rude to you either directly or indirectly and I apologize for it coming out that way.

Yes, but I’ve asked that for a reason and in a specific context. I guess it is my mistake for not being more specific and saying it’s actual Undead living and walking about on a daily basis within the city of Stormwind rather than special cases. Though I am curious how you will answer to the other two posters who have took some of the individuals you mentioned and infirmed that they ever walked into Stormwind or are representative of anything at all, Shadowtwili regarding Calia and Derek, respectively Alannyse regarding Blind Mary, Chapman, First Mate Snellig.

That wouldn’t be of use to his argument because the question pertained to the presence of Undead other than Ebon Blade within Stormwind. Both the EB and the AC are neutral factions and were called forth to help and are not conclusive evidence. Instead they are more akin to UN peacekeepers deployed in various conflict zones at an international actor’s request.

The Argent Crusade could be an option, but while they accept Undead, keep in mind they were always meant to be an exception ever since the original Argent Dawn (see Leonid Bartholmew) and ultimately it depends on each argent RP guild whether they accept DR or not. The Ebon Blade would be a more sure option, at least in my opinion. Wandering alone isn’t wrong either as long as you keep track of your survival instincts and avoid unfriendly places. It even fits the whole archetype of a ranger better than belonging to one group or another, but the main question would be what actually motivates your char. Whether blood elf or kaldorei and what group, if any, would allow for them to pursue their goals.

That would be a very bad idea. The Ashen Verdict is long gone and since then the Ebon Blade raided Light’s Hope Chapel, killed a bunch of paladins and tried to make Tirion one of theirs. :thinking: Even in the Shadowlands pre-patch, if you clicked on argent npc’s in Icecrown as a death knight they’d warn you they haven’t forgotten about Light’s Hope Chapel and you’re not allies, you just have a common foe.

Considering they’re merely a customization option I doubt Blizzard will go through too much effort with them. Special forces of the Forsaken or individuals who have left and are trying to carve their own path seems a more probable outcome.

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I mostly agree with the general sentiment here. As someone who is currently playing a Darkfallen as we speak, it’s fair to assume we’re in the limbo zone. Seeking the approval of the Alliance while not currently having it. As people have said it is SEEMINGLY down to Tyrande’s decision. We SEE Tyrande in 9.2.5. We know what she is up to. She’s in Ardenweald getting seeded. So, probably not actively making any decisions on the fate of Darkfallen rn.

However, I do feel like I have to respond to the people who are claiming not only that Darkfallen don’t belong in Stormwind (a fair point) and also similarly claiming it’s unlikely or impossible that they will be brought back into the Alliance. So I want to bring up a few points that make me think we WILL at some point see at least undead Kaldorei working for the Alliance (again, this is not a statement on current times):

  1. Firstly, from a story unrelated perspective: The quest dialogue about Nightfallen Kaldorei in the 9.2.5 Lordaeron quests from Dark Ranger Velonara ONLY appear if you play Alliance. Horde players do not see this dialogue. Which I believe indicates it is a deliberate decision from Blizz to indicate THIS is the reason why there’s Alliance Dark Ranger customizations. It’s like “Oh, some DRs are going back to the Alliance that’s why your guildmate is now playing one alongside your human paladin!” Not great for us lore folk but I think this is Blizz’s current explanation. Again, read above, I do not think this = DR in SW.

  2. Starting in BfA: Tyrande and Maive’s immediate response to the Darkfallen Kaldorei is not to treat them like monsters. Tyrande tries at first to reason, to convince them not to give into the darkness. It’s implied she is trying to return them to the fold. Similarly, Maiev takes a similar approach. They’re not at all judgemental about their undeath, it’s their actions that worry them.

  3. In Shadows Rising, Sira, the undead Warden plays a big role and by the end she is captured by the Horde and is handed over to the Alliance, to be given to Tyrande, as a geasture of peace. Sira feels abandoned by her former allies, such as Nathanos, a second betrayal. But importantly, we see the Night Warrior version of Tyrande actually show mercy to Sira. Even in her most rage-filled point, she cannot bring herself to harm Sira and Maiev and Shandris both implore mercy against Sira and it is specifically stated that it is EASY for them to take the glaives from Tyrande’s hands because she basically doesn’t resist. She cannot bring herself to kill Sira.

  4. In 9.2 after the sentencing of Sylvanas you can interact with Maiev and she talks about Sira. It’s very much the same way she talks about Sira in Shadows Rising and indicates what she wants for Sira, to find the same kind of redemption she herself found. So, Sira does keep coming up as a point of interest character.

I do not think it is implausible we have a situation where maybe Delaryn Summermoon leads the Kaldorei who stick with the Forsaken and Sira begins to overcome the hatred within and begins to return to grace opening the door for fellow undead Kaldorei to join her Alliance aligned. It feels like the direction Blizz wants to go but this is all speculation.

My main point is this: I agree, right now the Darkfallen are in limbo. VERY reasonable to play a Darkfallen SEEKING Alliance approval. Not quite reasonable to imply it already exists. HOWEVER, I think it is unreasonable to say it’s unlikely the Night Elves will accept them back. The Kaldorei leadership has been shown for the most part to be very sympathetic to the undead Kaldorei. Especially with Tyrande now focused on renewal.

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