I’ve noticed an increasing number of players stepping away from Mythic+ due to its current state, which is unfortunate because it has the potential to be one of the most engaging game modes. Blizzard needs to recognize that fixing Mythic+ isn’t as complicated as it seems; they just have to listen to the community and actually play the content themselves. Here’s what should change:
Remove key depletion after +12. (consider applying to all key levels?) Benefit: Encourages experimentation, reduces frustration from failed runs, and incentivizes players to keep trying instead of giving up.
Implement a shorter timer for all keys (around 20–25 minutes). This, paired with no depletes, would let players run multiple attempts in an hour—currently not possible—and would significantly boost participation. Let’s face it: at the moment, most players end up waiting at least 20 minutes in queue, only to wipe on the first pull and log out because they won’t have enough time left to complete another key. Benefit: Promotes faster, repeatable attempts, making Mythic+ feel less punishing and more dynamic. Impact: More players would be willing to “give it a shot,” especially those who typically avoid Mythic+ due to time constraints or fear of failure.
Reintroduce two-second silences on all CC effects. This would narrow the gap in the tank meta (and overall meta), allowing for more flexible group compositions instead of relying on perfect CC chains. Benefit: Levels the playing field for tank and healer choices, reducing reliance on meta setups and fostering creativity in group composition.
Respawns location updated after each boss kill. Benefit: Eliminates excessive backtracking after wipes, maintaining momentum and reducing frustration in longer dungeons.
It might be not doable mid expansion but in a future expansion, balance classes by splitting spell effects between Mythic+ and raids—similar to the current distinction in scaling between PvP and PvE for spells/gears. Benefit: Enables Blizzard to fine-tune class performance without collateral effects on other content, much like PvP vs. PvE balance.
The result? A surge in tank and healer participation, a larger and more diverse player base, greater variety in class choices and gameplay styles, a less frustrating and more engaging experience, and a game that is not only more accessible but also finely tuned for balance and scalability.
Just my two cents from a long-time player who primarily runs pick-up groups.
Generally agree except for point 1. I’d rather keys have charges before they deplete. Then you have some room for experimentation but eventually you need to get the message you may be in over your head.
Dungeons would deffo benefit from being slightly shorter. 20 is perhaps a little short though.
One thing I think you’re missing is the difficulty curve. The game has basically stopped at timing 11’s for a lot of people and then they quit. Thats bad.
Having charges is definitely an interesting idea. Perhaps applying them to keys below +12 makes a lot of sense for players still learning the game, but at +12 and above, I’d imagine most players would prefer not to have their key downgraded.
You’re absolutely right about the difficulty curve—many players have voiced concerns about this. In my opinion, a big factor is the gap created after removing affix buffs when jumping from 11s to 12s. However, I believe the changes I’ve suggested could help alleviate this issue to some extent, as they provide players with more opportunities to practice +12s and break past the +11 barrier. While there are many ways to address this, it’s also natural for progression to plateau once players are fully geared. Ideally, though, this should happen closer to the end of the season, giving more room for meaningful growth along the way.
The main concern I have with this is it heavily favours coordinated push groups / teams in such a way that likely pushes the title out of puggable territory. Being able to run back keys creates a meta where players push more aggressively and incorporate extremely risk strategies that yield higher results less often. Stuff like that make playing in the high end outside of a full premade extremely frustrating. Charges I could see being an improvement, but the balance between efficiency and risk taking as it is feels a lot better than what no depletion would create.
I still think that this is just a band-aid solution. Instead, just have much fewer casts which “require” an interrupt. Simple. As long as the amount of casts stays as-is, specs with AoE stuns/interrupts/knockups will have a significant value over the specs who do not have this.
Eh, class/spec balance is quite ok-to-good currently?
Doubt. Tanks (and healers to some degree) have always been required more than available. Always. Before the LFG-tool you had the endless spam in trade/general “LF Tank [content], last spot”.
Tanking just has relatively many responsibilities, high impact on failures, and in M+ it’s the guide through the trash. And since tanks are rare two things tend to happen: tanks get cocky, and lesser skilled players perhaps try the job to get short queues but end up being cussed at.
And healers? They are most of the times just the mop having to soak up all the spills: covering the mess-ups of the group. The added one-shot mechanics earlier on may actually help here, as a failure just means that you die instead of it becoming a healer mechanic. But it became a bit too punishing, perhaps.
Changes to M+ won’t fix the lack of tanks/healers. People just like to DPS. That’s just about it.
If anything, if you really want to try to move people from DPS roles to other roles…you may actually have to look at disabling any kind of DPS-metrics/meters. Won’t happen, so we just have to soak it up and live with it.
You’re correct—that would be one end of the spectrum. But on the other hand, it could also create situations where players think, ‘Eh, I don’t care; I’ll just invite this guy. Worst case scenario, we try again or get someone else if it doesn’t work out.’ That said, I agree that charges could be a good way to strike a middle ground between encouraging risk-taking and maintaining balance.
It definitely isn’t. There are still way too many disparities between DPS—just look at how far ahead shamans are, for instance. The same goes for tanks; paladins are doing 20-30% more damage than other tanks, not to mention their crazy toolkit. And those are just a couple of examples; there are plenty more disparities across the board.
Yes, that’s fair—it will always be an issue. However, I’m convinced it can be alleviated at least a bit by allowing players to practice more with shorter keys and free attempts. Imagine the benefit if groups didn’t have to disband after one failure but could instead restart the key after quickly chatting about what didn’t work and what could be improved. It would significantly increase the odds of timing keys in pugs, in my opinion. Plus, it would give more people the chance to try these two roles and help those currently playing them improve, rather than leaving the game because these roles often feel ungrateful.
On average, in practice, they really aren’t? You really have to pull around their cooldowns to make it work…
Maybe so. Has little to no direct impact on 99.9% of the players as their output and pulls aren’t optimal anyways. You’re not gonna utilize that DPS boost by pulling pack-by-pack.
What I aimed at is that most, if not all, specs are capable of going high. That is well done. There are some positive and negative exceptions, but with 36 specs that’s impossible to avoid.
I’m not convinced about that. Players just do not want to spend an hour in content they can do within 20 minutes in other groups. The depletion mechanism has zero impact in that regard, it’s about the content becoming a chore when it takes too long…and when it takes too long you need more perfect interrupts, stuns, avoid stuff, … everything becomes more difficult by lasting longer.
This all is just implied in highly repetitive content. Unavoidable to most degree.
And restarting a key also means that you can replace that one player you don’t like. It creates issues as well.
Not really, as still people don’t want to fail regardless of the reward or consequences.
Overall it is just 1 keylevel difference. And that on the top top top top keylevels by professionals. I am fine blizz can not 100% balance that. The professionals always will find a meta anyway.
I agree there will always be a meta, and that’s fine. I just wish the differences were a bit more marginal. The issue I see is that classes like shamans and paladins not only have a significant DPS advantage but also boast the best toolkits compared to every other class for Mythic+ content, which definitely prevents other classes from being invited more often.
remove guile and peril as they are unnecessary since difficulty is condensed.
make timers more generous (no need to remove it) but keep same tight requirements for “+2ing” and "+3ing"as they are now. Basically make it to be a bit easier to +1.
I think these things get magnified by comps synergies and the people at the highest level not really being representative of the community as a whole - yet every eejit holds them up as the example.
For instance, if Yoda etc all decided to do some weird comp they’d still be at or around the top because they are just that good - yet because they are playing x,y and z its suddenly as if other comps can’t do it.
Enh shows as ridiculous in those high comps because its getting funneled buffs that allow it to shine. Sure its “strong” but your average fotm reroller in a +8 isn’t that far ahead (if at all) compared to someone who has come close to mastering their off meta class.
Certain seasons also benefit certain comps. Prot pala was nowhere to be seen earlier even though its always had the same utility. Now it just does a lot of damage. If you just want pure tankiness warriors are still in a class of their own. Now the damage matters on an 18. but for 95%+ of the players who are playing below a 12 a warrior may be a better choice for pugs, its far harder to kill and needs less babysitting meaning the healer can spend a bit more brain power on mechanics or keeping the group alive.
Resto shammy was “the” healer earlier in the season. It’s not lost anything that made it shine. It has an awesome pug toolkit, can compensate for mistakes with a million CD’s, has a short kick, tons of utility but its been outshone (in high co-ordinated keys) by disc.
The conversation needs to move to the keys the 95%+ are doing, not what certain comps are capable of in the very best hands.
I’ve never mentioned Retribution Paladins. I was referring to Paladin tanks, which are a similar case to Demon Hunter tanks in Dragonflight, boasting a crazy toolkit and dealing 30% more damage than other tanks.
Restoration Shamans aren’t as prevalent anymore because Protection Paladins have the toolkit to comfortably support a Priest in keys, and resto Shaman have been replaced by shaman DPS, which is in a tier of its own right now.
That said, I’m not talking about the top 0.1% here but rather the mid-to-high end of the spectrum, where most people typically cap out between +10 and +13 keys and stop playing the game. To be fair, you’ll always have a mix of stronger and weaker players, but is it normal that having a Shaman DPS can carry a key to completion even with weaker players? People would have to learn how to play mythic+ instead of solely relying on over tuned classes.
In my opinion, and I could be wrong, this is one of the reasons why people only invite meta classes in LFG. If the disparities weren’t so significant—even though there will always be a meta, which is normal and fine—it wouldn’t make such a big difference whether you invited a meta class or a non-meta class. It should only matter for the top 0.1% pushing keys. And yes, I’m aware of the Guardian Druid example—it’s Veganshquish, who achieves this every season, outpacing every other Druid tank by 2 key levels, if not more…
I really doubt anyone currently thinks the state of Mythic+ is fine. There are very few keys running. So, what are your suggestions for improvement?
EDIT1: I also want to point out that there’s no secret to Mythic+—the more you play, the better you get. That’s why I think it’s crucial to help as many players as possible maximize their time by not wasting it in queues just because they aren’t playing a meta class or because the current model only allows for one attempt if someone has a limited playtime window (e.g., 1 hour). All the suggestions I’ve made are aimed at bridging these gaps.
The toolkit is only 3 things away from a ret paladins toolkit fyi
Avengers shield, divine toll interrupts and a 5min cooldown spell immunity.
Toolkit wise there is no difference except for more interrupts and that spell immunity.
And the toolkit for prot has been the exact same from Shadowlands
The damage is being nerfed in next patch.
The specs are extremely close to each other on dps
The big difference is that there is 2 dps shaman specs on top and the dps difference from the highest shaman spec to the next class is the same as from that next classes highest spec to shadow priest and MM hunter
The toolkit itself isn’t the problem; the real issue arises when it’s combined with an additional 30% damage on other tanks and in dungeons that heavily depend on interrupts (which, as I suggested, could be mitigated by reverting to a 2-second silence on CCs). While it’s good to see Protection Paladin damage being nerfed, the adjustment might be coming too late. Blizzard needs to implement these changes earlier in the season if they want to maintain player engagement throughout. The core problem, as seen with Shaman, lies in the synergy between an exceptionally strong toolkit and a significant damage boost compared to the other class.
